Baduanjin set

Baduanjin set

Postby ashtanga » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:53 pm

I saw the video below on YouTube and have been told its the "Baduanjin" set as created by Jianhou and transmitted to Tian Zhaolin.

Can anyone tell me a little more about it and maybe if there are any resources were I can learn more? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DLuiBBkNs
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Postby aidren » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ashtanga:
<B>I saw the video below on YouTube and have been told its the "Baduanjin" set as created by Jianhou and transmitted to Tian Zhaolin.

Can anyone tell me a little more about it and maybe if there are any resources were I can learn more? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DLuiBBkNs</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't tell you specifically about the origins of this but can say the first half of it is a Qi Gong set that I learned in the Yang system (lineage to Yang Chengfu -- so I am suspecting to Chien Hou and ???). You can find some information on that set in two books:

The Dao of Taijiquan: Way to Rejuvenation (Tai Chi) by Jou Tsung Hwa, and

Cultivating the Ch'I: The Secrets of Energy and Vitality (Chen Kung, Vol 1) by Stuart Alve Olson (Paperback - Jul 1993) -- a translation of Chen Yenling's book.

The last part of this set has many pieces that I have learned as individual exercises.

Hope this helps you. Let me know what you find out if you have the time.

Thanks

Aidren
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Postby aidren » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:59 pm

I suppose that I could also note, regarding the individual exercises I learned that are in this set -- some I learned in a Wu Yang style (which turned out to be Wu's Yang), but I don't know the lineage of that; and the others I learned in workshops with John Ding (lineage to Yang Sau Chung).

Aidren
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Postby ashtanga » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:54 am

Thanks for the info. So it looks like the latter half of this is self created. Does that mean that it could be copied, or would it have to be taught?
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Postby aidren » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ashtanga:
Thanks for the info. So it looks like the latter half of this is self created. Does that mean that it could be copied, or would it have to be taught?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not suggesting that the latter half was created by someone as I simply don't know. Only commenting on the fact that some of the forms within that half are exercises that I've learned individually.

I think it's always better (and usually easier) to learn them from someone, but sometimes that's just not possible...

Either way, keep in mind, that these sets/exercises, seem like just that, but encompass more than the external practice (or should).... just like any traditional TC form.

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Postby yslim » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ashtanga:
<B>I saw the video below on YouTube and have been told its the "Baduanjin" set as created by Jianhou and transmitted to Tian Zhaolin.

Can anyone tell me a little more about it and maybe if there are any resources were I can learn more? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DLuiBBkNs</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi

I learned these movements so many years ago from my very first teacher Dr.Jerry Johnson. He taught us the Yang and later switched to the Chen.His Chen teacher is a disciple of GM Feng Zhi Qiang, and GM FZQ's teacher is Chen Fake.

Chen Taiji has a " exercise set" call 'Chan Ssu Chin'. A silk reeling cocoon training set. When reeling the silk it is spiral as it removes from the cocoon and the cocoon rotate. The silk is represent the way chi flow through the body and the cocoon represent the waist which rotate on its exist
thus comes its name. The Traditional Yang Association does not has this. I heard this directly from Master Yang Jun in his seminar. Since the Father of Yang Taiji learned taiji from the Chen Master in Chen Village. And it is a hall mark of Chen. GM Yang Jianhou is not that far distance years from their beginning. He could had retain it. Other did not teach it because in the olden years one have to be worthy of, to receive such teaching. Then it call 'family secret or <rice bowl> today it is a patented "trade secret.(But not in China)

Now if your heart purely sit on taiji. I had a VHS (hey, I'm a old fashion kind of guy. it might be in DVD now.) on this Chan Ssu Chin. (This is a different Chan Ssu Chin that GM Chen Xiao Wang is teaching now through out the world) This has about 25 postures, like '25 form' as Taiji 24 form if you will. Each one has it's name and martial application come with this kit. It trains(warm-up) from the head first then downward to the feet. It was my private lesson recorded tape in my by-gone-years. But the good news is..My friend had given me a copy of this same set Chan Ssu Chin in that period. This tape call China Living Treasure with Zhanng Xue Xin which you can still buy one at US$49.95.
Go to Google type in zhang xue xin.

All the movements in the clip you posted is in the tape plus few more. To practice it in a single posture with repetition is best. You learn more 'secret' out of it. example: In this clip there is one very sample posture that he just turning his head from side to side as a warm up. We all know that one by heart. But what else do we know in our YI?
The very first time my teacher asked me to press my hand strongly against one side of his face as to stop him from turning his head. I felt no stiff neck of his but my feet can't root me in place and flied off. The secret is, you must need a teacher to orally train you. The secret is in my second paragraph in this post. Read it slowly see if you can graph it. It is in the silk and the cocoon. Can you able to physically and mentally 'accept' there is "two bodies'? I will stop here until you do.

The form need two bodies to keep it look alive and act alive, thus a living form. The silk is one 'body' the cocoon is one 'body. The silk is being pull one way and the cocoon is spiral another way.etc etc taiji. I am not try to give you a bad time.A lot of people does not believe the two bodies thing. so no need to explain. Until one grasp it then explain is no need.

Good luck for getting that tape (DVD).

Cherry o
lim
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Postby ashtanga » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:51 am

Hi, found this site:

http://www.onehand.com/1st_level/shopfr.html

Can you tell me which of the (many) videos would be the one I am looking for?

Much Appreciated!

Tony...
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Postby T » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:41 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by yslim:
<B>
Chen Taiji has a " exercise set" call 'Chan Ssu Chin'. A silk reeling cocoon training set. When reeling the silk it is spiral as it removes from the cocoon and the cocoon rotate. The silk is represent the way chi flow through the body and the cocoon represent the waist which rotate on its exist
thus comes its name. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I learned the same thing from Chen Zhenglei. And I have the same experience as you with Yang Taiji but my lineage is from Tung Ying Jie, there is no 'Chan Ssu Chin' in Yang.

But we do a similar qigong exercise as the first link shows. Similar not the same. My sifu has always referred to it as 12 pieces of Brocade since there are more than 8 exercises. I also do 8 pieces of brocade but I learned that from a Qigong sifu not my Taiji sifu.



[This message has been edited by T (edited 03-20-2008).]
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Postby Yuri_Snisarenko » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by T:
And I have the same experience as you with Yang Taiji but my lineage is from Tung Ying Jie, there is no 'Chan Ssu Chin' in Yang.

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Master Fu Qingquan (grandson of Fu Zhongwen) explained chansi-jin ('Chan Ssu Chin' ) on one of the seminars, but it was mentioned that indeed there are some differences with chen style.
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Postby ashtanga » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:31 am

...Sorry, but is the up shot that this is not a specific form then?
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