Methods of fajin training

Methods of fajin training

Postby Lao Tse » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:02 am

Hello everyone,

Recently I've been discussing methods of fajin training with practitioners of other styles (primarily Wu and Chen). There are some interesting similarities, as well as some notable differences.

I'm aware the Association advocates for single movement fajin practice, as well as "shivering staff" exercises.

Do your training regimens also include the insertion of fajin into the traditional long form? Do you practice distinct forms for this purpose?
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby UniTaichi » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:57 am

Hi Lao Tse,

Perhaps you can start by telling us what is the differences between Wu and Chen andalso the Yang stlye you are learning. I am more interested in the method than fajin in the form practice.

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby mls_72 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:19 pm

The methods of fajin training I have done in the Yang style were the same coming from my experiences with Fu Zhong Wen folks and Zhou Bin folks.

they both did these Linear fajin:
http://youtu.be/zzhx2v6gH3M

____________________________________
other fajin and fast form info:

Chen Wei ming wrote in his book about a fajin fast "long boxing set" and the Tung family do one as well.
http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... iji-sword/

Fu zhong wen's fast form:
http://youtu.be/vB5HQrD9-Aw

Tung Family fast form:
http://youtu.be/9jJ0eTawWzU
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby Audi » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:49 pm

We also practice Fajin out of a more or less fixed stance, without stepping. We also use two-person exercises to practice Fajin with various body parts. I would also say that I sometimes concentrate on aspects of Fajin during push hands application practice, both as a student and as a teacher.

I do not add explosive movements to my form, but do occasionally concentrate on aspects of Fajin during my form practice, such as how the transfer of energy matches how I reach the "settling point" of each posture.
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby T » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:14 pm

From Tung Ying Chieh there is both stationary and movement training of Fajin. It is found in his 2 fast forms.

mls_72 wrote:Tung Family fast form:
http://youtu.be/9jJ0eTawWzU


That is Tung Ying Chieh second fast form and it is a combination of Yang and Wu(Hao) style. Also it is being modified by Tung Hu Ling due the space he has to do the form so it looks a bit different in a bigger space. However do not get me wrong, Tung Hu Ling was highly skilled and I am in no way questioning his ability or what he is doing. The fact that he was able to modify it so easily is rather impressive to me

And since Chen Fajin was mentioned and for discussion purposes

Chen Xiaowang (19th Generation Chen and current head of Chen family Taijiquan)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj6UaEay5Lg

Chan Yu (19th generation Chen, grandson of Chen Fake)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_vcWq2GYXs

WARNING, turn down the volume, I have no idea who posted this but the soundtrack they added is horrendous and I wish they had just left in what he as saying

Chen Zhenglei (19th Generation Chen and where any of my small bit of Chen training originates either directly or through a student and a grand student)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KS_VZm4QWs
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby ChiDragon » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:24 pm

Lao Tse wrote:Hello everyone,

Recently I've been discussing methods of fajin training with practitioners of other styles (primarily Wu and Chen). There are some interesting similarities, as well as some notable differences.

I'm aware the Association advocates for single movement fajin practice, as well as "shivering staff" exercises.

Do your training regimens also include the insertion of fajin into the traditional long form? Do you practice distinct forms for this purpose?


Greetings!
發勁(Fa Jin) is not something for someone just to jump right into it without a long period of practice of the basic form of Tai Ji. The Jin has to be developed in the body from three to five years of Tai Ji practice before one can Fa Jin. The Jin has to be generated within the muscles, in order, to be executed during the performance in the fast form of Tai Ji.
A deep discussion requires explicit details for a good comprehension of a complex subject.
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby Jaxi » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:06 pm

I think Earl Montague described fa jing similar to how a sneeze can send force through the whole body. I've found this 'popping' combined with coiling/spiraling and rooting (so force sent up is locked below) very useful. If you don't root, the body jumps, if you don't coil the force is unnatural, if you don't 'pop' like a sneeze - the force is pushing instead of striking, and lastly: if you don't sink then rebound the chi as if contracting then releasing a spring - the force will be merely external/hard. Thanks, and good luck.
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby Jaxi » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:23 pm

One other note, although there is fa jing for shorter explosive striking, much of what the masters do is what I would call 'wide fa jing'. Their bodies don't need to move larger, but their energy is more relatable to lower frequencies, like a bass note with 'wider' sound waves. And the force is often sent to the weak link in the opponent's structure. The commonly thought of fa jing is more like a higher pitched note with a tighter focus (the area being struck) rather than letting the chi flow all through and around the person. The 'wide' fa jing is where the person becomes destabilized, and has difficulty regaining their footing. Ma Yueh Liang has very good wide fa jing, his opponents are destabilized and stumble back for quite a distance. Make no mistake: they didn't get pushed across the room. They are taken from stability and stumble across the room. I was trying a rope around a set of crab traps set upon a pallet when the knot gave... One of my legs was placed up against the traps to push as I pulled back. When the knot gave, I stumbled 10-15 feet or so, not being able to regain my footing until after I fell from the dock into the water, looking quite foolish. Similar effect. I consider these types of fa jing to be on the same spectrum, just different ends. Thanks.
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby Bob Ashmore » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:00 pm

I cannot tell you how many times I have been asked by my students, "When will I learn to Fa Jin?"
My reply has remained fairly consistent over the years, it is the one I learned from my first Master, Si Kung Eddie Wu, a very long time ago.
He explained to me that he could not teach me Fa Jin, that all he could teach me was correct movement and that once I learned that Fa Jin would come naturally without any need for further training.
I was young and dumb (we have all been guilty of that) and felt that his answer was rather incomplete.
So, and of course, I discarded it and spent a lot of time researching this thing I sought in order to learn the secret of how to achieve it.
No research is in vain, fortunately, so I won't say I wasted my time.
However...
Despite all of the reading and my endless questioning of those who had achieved the goal of being able to Fa Jin on how it was done I did not find that super secret hand shake that would allow me to join their ranks overnight.
Instead, and fortunately, I continued to train with Si Kung and his disciples for a number of years, learning correct movement for TCC practice.
And one day Fa Jin happened for me all by itself.
After all the time I spent seeking it, seeking it, all my will bent towards finding it, I of course didn't even recognize it once I had it.
It seemed so natural to me, so much in accordance with what I was doing, that I had no idea I had achieved it.
One of my teachers at the time laughed at me while I was training one day and told me, "I see you have finally found your precious Fa Jin."
I was stunned, to say the least.
Because by that time it seemed like such a simple thing.

So it goes with my students.
I tell them I cannot teach them Fa Jin, only correct TCC movement, and that Fa Jin will come when they have learned that.
They do not believe me...
The cycle continues.
As it always has and, most likely, always will.

A wise man once said, "There are no shortcuts".
Another wise man once said, "Shortcuts make long delays".
I find both to be very true.
Now... :wink:

Bob
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Re: Methods of fajin training

Postby ChiDragon » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Well said, Bob Ashmore

Yes, Jin can only be discovered by one's own intuition. No one can help others to obtain it but oneself. :)
A deep discussion requires explicit details for a good comprehension of a complex subject.
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