Fajin

Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:35 pm

ChiDragon wrote:蓄劲如张弓,发劲如放箭, 曲中求直,蓄而后发
These two phrases were used to describe jin(勁) which is analogous to the potential energy stored in a pulled bow; and the speed as a shooting arrow. Furthermore, the phrase 曲中求直 was describing the pulled bow in curvature. It was waiting for the potential energy to be released. Hence, after the arrow was released, the bow will become straightened.


If you want to know what the above phrases meant, please watch the video.

Here is how a Tai Chi body executing its jin(勁) at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4

You will see the difference between fali(發力) and fajin(發勁). Also, you will hear the heavy breathing of the opponent but not the Tai Chi master. It is because he knows how to regulate his breathing within his dan tian.

Please feel free to comment and hit me with questions. Let's see how much do I know. If not, I will try to find the answer for us!
Last edited by ChiDragon on Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Fajin

Postby DPasek » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:14 pm

The following comes from the latest post by Paul Brennan, and even though it comes from Yiquan (Xingyiquan), I found the interpretation interesting (and possibly applicable to how we understand Taijiquan):
骨節如弓背,筋伸似弓絃,運勁如絃滿,發手似放箭
Your joints arc like the curve of a bow. Your sinews stretch like bowstrings. Wielding energy is like the tautness of the bowstrings. Send your hand out as though loosing an arrow. - Wang Xiangzhai 王薌齋 [1929]

Note that he quotes and paraphrases other Taijiquan sayings in the surrounding text, so the bow and bowstring analogy likely comes from Taijiquan as well.
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:14 pm

骨節如弓背,
The joints are like the back of a bow,

筋伸似弓絃,
The tendons extended are like the taut bowstring.

運勁如絃滿,
Initiate the explosive force is like a fully tautened bowstring.

發手似放箭
The initial strike is like releasing a swift shooting arrow.
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:13 pm

Let's analyse the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4

Let's call the Tai Chi Chuan master TCCM and the opponent is OPN

By looking at it macroscopically, the is a big difference in physical size. In ordinary conditions, there would be no match in the two. However, it seems impossible for the TCCM to win all the time. Does this ever occur in your mind? What is going on?

Rooting and footwork
First of all, let's pay more attention to their feet. The TCCM always maintain a state of 實腳(solid foot) on the floor; and the OPN is always lifting his feet in a state of 虛腳(hollow foot). There is a big difference in rooting foundation between the two. With the hollow foot condition, the OPN makes himself very vulnerable to be off balance by leaning forward with his own weight. Hence, the TCCM really took advantage of that by throwing off balance and landed on the floor.

發力(Fali) and 發勁(Fajin)
Besides the TCCM has the advantage of the foot rooting, over the OPN; he also has a tremendous (jin) which has been developed through his diligent practice. Thus the ability to fajin overcomes his handicap of small physical size. The OPN has no jin(勁) but just li(力). He is only using his regular body strength, li(力) and his body weight to wrestle. However, his own body weight was going against him rather than aiding himself.

Breathing
The TCCM is regulating his 氣(breath) within his dan tian to generate his perpetual energy; while the OPN was using all his energy without knowing how to maintain his breath. By the heavy sound in his breathing, his body was lack of oxygen which cannot generate anymore energy to defend himself. Finally, he collapsed on the floor due to exhaustion.
Last edited by ChiDragon on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fajin

Postby global village idiot » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:47 pm

The one thing I noticed is how "top-heavy" the guy with the beard is. You see the other fellow use this every time he sends his opponent tumbling. Takes him as much effort as knocking over a vase.

gvi
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:33 pm

Yes, at 1:50, the TCCM picks up the OPN and threw him on the floor. That was no ordinary fali; it takes a tremendous amount of physical strength, back and waist support to do so. If one do not believe pushing someone away is real, then picking someone up and threw one sideways is no fake. It take a tremendous jin(勁) and fajin(發勁) skill to do so. Especially, picking up somebody and threw him down with the waist turned from right to left.

Throwing the OPN down is like:
運勁如絃滿
Initiate the explosive force is like a fully tautened bowstring.

發手似放箭
Throwing somebody down or pushing one away is like releasing a swift shooting arrow.
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Re: Fajin

Postby fchai » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:30 am

Hi CD,
Actually the throw at 1:50 looks very much like a judo throw. You use the hips and waist, but also move in and get below the other person's CG and dislodge his/her footing/foundation. The other guy was ripe for the throw. The throw was well executed.
Take care,
Frank
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Re: Fajin

Postby fchai » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:38 am

Greetings,
I just recalled that the throw in question may have been called, ''Ogoshi''. However, I may have mis-remembered.
Take care,
Frank
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:20 am

Hi, fchai
The Judo move ''Ogoshi' requires the aid of the upper torso and arms for the offender to do the throw.

If you look at the position of legs of the TCCM, in the video, he only flip the guy with his arms. It is not possible to pick up a guy with the size bigger than him and slammed him down on the floor. Where is the physical strength come? It is the jin in the body muscles.

Perhaps, you are not convience at 1:50 is the power of fajin. Maybe you want to take look at 1:16 and see how the opponent was thrown off, from the front, by the hands of the TCCM. It was definitely is fajin.
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:25 am

Hi, fchai
The Judo move ''Ogoshi' requires the aid of the upper torso and arms for the offender to do the throw.
Ref: Ogoshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWtRtJ23cM


If you look at the position of legs of the TCCM, in the video, he only flip the guy with his arms. It is not possible to pick up a guy with the size bigger than him and slammed him down on the floor. Where is the physical strength come? It is the jin in the body muscles.

Perhaps, you are not convience at 1:50 is the power of fajin. Maybe you want to take look at 1:16 and see how the opponent was thrown off, from the front, by the hands of the TCCM. It was definitely is fajin.
Ref: Fajin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:34 am

Hi, fchai
The Judo move ''Ogoshi' requires the aid of the upper torso and arms for the offender to do the throw.
Ref: Ogoshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWtRtJ23cM


If you look at the position of legs of the TCCM, in the video, he only flip the guy with his arms. It is not possible to pick up a guy with the size bigger than him and slammed him down on the floor. Where is the physical strength come? It is the jin in the body muscles.

Perhaps, you are not convience at 1:50 is the power of fajin. Maybe you want to take look at 1:16 and see how the opponent was thrown off, from the front, by the hands of the TCCM. You see how the guy was still rolling on the floor. It was definitely the power of fajin. It was the jin went straight through the body of the opponent and cause him to rolling on the floor like that. BTW It is hard for one to understand what fajin is all about if one doesn't understand how the jin was developed in the body.
Ref: Fajin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:46 am

Hi, fchai
The Judo move ''Ogoshi' requires the aid of the upper torso and arms for the offender to do the throw.
Ref: Ogoshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWtRtJ23cM


If you look at the position of legs of the TCCM, in the video, he only flip the guy with his arms. It is not possible to pick up a guy with the size bigger than him and slammed him down on the floor. Where is the physical strength come? It is the jin in the body muscles.

Perhaps, you are not convience at 1:50 is the power of fajin. Maybe you want to take look at 1:16 and see how the opponent was thrown off, from the front, by the hands of the TCCM. You see how the guy was still rolling on the floor. It was definitely the power of fajin. It was the jin went straight through the body of the opponent and cause him to rolling on the floor like that. BTW It is hard for one to understand what fajin is all about if one doesn't understand how the jin was developed in the body.
Ref: Fajin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4

Edited to add:
Please keep in mind, Judo requires a pivot point to execute most moves and Fajin doesn't.
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:07 am

Hi, fchai
The Judo move ''Ogoshi' requires the aid of the upper torso and arms for the offender to do the throw.
Ref: Ogoshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWtRtJ23cM


If you look at the position of legs of the TCCM, in the video, he only flip the guy with his arms. It is not possible to pick up a guy with the size bigger than him and slammed him down on the floor. Where is the physical strength come? It is the jin in the body muscles.

Perhaps, you are not convience at 1:50 is the power of fajin. Maybe you want to take look at 1:16 and see how the opponent was thrown off, from the front, by the hands of the TCCM. You see how the guy was still rolling on the floor. It was definitely the power of fajin. It was the jin went straight through the body of the opponent and cause him to rolling on the floor like that. BTW It is hard for one to understand what fajin is all about if one doesn't understand how the jin was developed in the body.
Ref: Fajin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTWt3cT7L4

Edited to add:
Please keep in mind, Judo requires a pivot point to execute most moves and Fajin doesn't. Fajin only requires a point of contact to be executed.
A deep discussion requires explicit details for a good comprehension of a complex subject.
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:29 am

This video has good explanation about fajin by the grand masters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqjRbJYaG_k

They expound in a simple way for everyone to understand. It's in Chinese. Can someone give me the English translation for these eight basic methods of Fajin? It would be very interesting to discuss it in English. It is a very good reference for understanding Fajin better than any book or other translations. It is because we got the words right out from the horse's mouth. :shock:
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Re: Fajin

Postby ChiDragon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Here is the translation for this short and simple episode on fajin.

At 0:00
力是武術的根本
Strength is the root of martial arts.

At 0:03
沒有力就无用于技击
If there is no strength, then, one is unable to strike.

At 0:06
太極拳有八种基本勁力
There are eight basic explosive strengths in Tai Ji Quan.


I will translate each method in the following posts.
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