sabre, sword, spear, etc


Postby micha » Sun Apr 29, 2001 2:42 pm

please someone know the english translation from this sword form??
Tai Chi Tschian

1.)Chi She
2.)Bim bu dian Tschian
3.)Tsche bu fan tschi
4.)Zim bu pion ze
5.)Schian jo pion dei
6.)Schian zor pion dei
7.)Du Li schan ze
8.)Tschuän schingun bu pi diä
9.)Schü bu hui tschu
10.)Bim bu pian ze
11.)Jo gun bu Län tschiä
12.)Zor gun bu Län tschiä
13.)Ziän bu fan ze
14.)Schan bu gua pi
15.)Ding bu hui tschu
16.)Duän schün pian mor
17.)Gung bu bian ze
18.)Schou sche

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Postby Audi » Mon May 14, 2001 12:22 am

Hi Micha,

This system of transliteration is outside my experience. Parts of it look like German spellings, but others do not. Do you know what the source language for the letters is? Also, even allowing for German letter values, many of the words do not appear to be standard Mandarin. For instance, "bim" and "pion" do not represent permissible syllables in standard Mandarin according to any reasonable pronounciation might assume. Could there perhaps be miss-spellings? Is this perhaps some other dialect of Chinese, like Hakka or Shanghai speech?

All in all, this transliteration resembles many spontaneous ones I have seen that are difficult to decipher without a lot of context or more familiarity with the language than I have. Unfortunately, this sort of situation is pretty common when Chinese is quoted outside of language learning contexts. Compared to Western languages, Chinese is rich in homonyms. These are generally distinguished in character writing, but obscured in transliterations. Without context and without indication of tones, it is very common for one phonetic syllable to have many different meanings. For instance, a sequence like "tian," depending on the system of transliteration, could be interpreted as "field," "heaven," "dot,"
"sweet," "electric," "dictionary," "shop," "palace," "fill," and "increase."

By guessing at tones and letter values, I think I can make out a few words. For what it is worth, I think the title corresponds to Mandarin pinyin Tai4 Ji2 Jian4 (T'ai Chi Sword). In Posture number 1, "chi she" (qi3 shi4 in Mandarin pinyin) would mean "beginning posture." In number 2, "bim" is a mystery, but "bu" might refer to a type of step. "Dian tchian" might be Mandarin pinyin "dian3 jian4," which might mean something like "dot or point the sword." In number 3, tsche bu could refer to "che4 bu4" (retreating step). In 5 and 6, " schian jo" and "schian zor" are probably "xiang4 you4" and "xiang4 zuo3" (toward the right and toward the left). In 7, "du li" is probably "du2 li4," which means "stand alone" or "stand on one leg." "Schan ze" could refer to "shan4 zi," which could mean "fan." In 9, "schu bu" could be "xu1 bu4," or "empty stance/step." In 11 and 12, "jo gun bu" and "zor gun bu" are probably "right bow stance" and "left bow stance." In 14, "schan bu gua pi" could be "step up, stride over, and split." In 15 "ding bu" could be "stand steady." In 17, "gung bu" is probably "bow stance." In 18, "schou she" could be "guard posture" (shou3 shi4) or maybe more likely "concluding posture" (shou1 shi4).

Do any of these guesses correspond to your the actual form you do? I hope this helps.

Good luck,

[This message has been edited by Audi (edited 05-19-2001).]
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Postby micha » Sun Jun 17, 2001 5:24 pm

Hi Audi,
thank you very much for your answer.
I don't know the chinese dialekt, is the
dialekt from shaolin.
But I meaning you say right. Sorry I give you no answer earlyer, never thinking to get a answer. We looking long time for a translation.

Thank you again, see you, Micha
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Bayreuth, Bayern, Germany

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