Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby mls_72 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:47 pm

In Yang, Chen Fu's 1934 book "Complete Principles and Applications of Tai -chi Chuan" he talks openly about Taoist meditation, Kan and Li. "Fire and Water" two very important "Yin and Yang" aspects in the body related to the elements, the heart and kidneys, and the importance to balance them. Any mention of this Taoist internal practice disappeared from the conversation, and from every subsequent Tai Chi book that came out.

Can anyone discuss more on the practice of "Kan and Li" meditation and how to practice it in Yang Family Taijiquan?

Matt
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Re: Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby Louis Swaim » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:18 pm

Greetings Matt,

What's your source for this information? Could you elaborate? I can't identify the terms you mention, "kan and li."

--Louis
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Re: Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby mls_72 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:04 pm

Louis Swaim wrote:Greetings Matt,

What's your source for this information? Could you elaborate? I can't identify the terms you mention, "kan and li."

--Louis


A rough translation my friend was working on. I guess he was saying that Yang Chen Fu mentioned some kind of Taoist meditation in his book "Complete Principles and Applications of Tai Chi Chuan". This particular method is called "Kan and Li" both symbols from the Bagua Trigrams. Kan and Li are the trigrams for Fire and Water. I believe the energy of kidney's water and heart's fire and to mix in the dan tien. other than that I dont know much, that is why I was asking.

I havent found much on it, but here are some sources when googling "kan and Li meditation":

http://taoism.about.com/od/practices/a/Kan_Li.htm

http://sacredpeaks.net/mtKanLi.htm

http://store.innertraditions.com/isbn/978-1-59477-137-8

Have you heard of the Yang Chen Fu mentioning meditation or "Kan and Li" in your translations?
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Re: Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby Louis Swaim » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:59 am

Hi Matt,

As you know, I translated Yang Chengfu's 1934 book, 太極拳體用全書, so I'm fairly familiar with the content. From what I recall, the bagua terms kan and li 坎, 離 appear only in the Taijiquan Classic in the back of the book, in the section beginning "What is Long Boxing. . ." (see Essence and Applications of Taijiquan, pp. 117-118), and not in any special discussion of meditation practice. In neidan (inner alchemy) tradition, the imagery of kan and li, as you mention, are associated with dantian focus in meditation, but I don't recall that being mentioned in Yang Chengfu's 1934 book. If you have any more specific information, such as the title of the section in which these terms appear, maybe that will lead me to something. Some editions of the book have material that is omitted in other editions. Let me know.

Louis
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Re: Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby mls_72 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:05 pm

thanks for the feedback Louis, I'll have to ask around. I don't know to much about it but it sounded very interesting that YCF "may have" mentioned Taoist meditation back in the 1930's as part of the Yang Family Taijiquan.
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Re: Yang Chen Fu on "Kan and Li" Taoist meditation

Postby UniTaichi » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:01 am

Hi All,

When one talk about ''Kan & Li'' , one is talking about Jing, Qi, Shen , which are frequently mentioned in writing on Taichi. ''Kan & Li '' meditation is one of the way to transform Jing, Qi, to Shen.

These 3 are offen quoted in other maxim of Internal martial arts like Bagua and Xingyi. All high level internal gongfu are attained when one is able to do these transformation. It is also same if the Master mentioned training to activate the '' small mirco-orbit'' and the ''big mirco-orbit'.' Different Masters uses different method and terms to emphasis this very important essence of training. It can be very obscure and esoteric to many, which is the reason why is it often neglected and due to this neglect, not many can achieved high level in Taichi and other IMA.

I would really like to encourage any person to look at it seriously. 8)

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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