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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:14 am
by mls_72

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:23 am
by Richard Man
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mls_72:
other interesting clips of Imperial Yang- old frame and small frame, Fast Wu, ect.

http://www.polariswushu.net/Sampler.html[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect timing! In another group, we were just talking about Wu Fast Form. The one I just learned is a variation of the one on this site, which is the one MYL did. I have a copy of MYL doing the form too, but now I can just point people to this site!

Thanks!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:37 am
by mls_72
The Wu fast frame looks more like what taiji changquan would look like than any other style claiming it. The imperial yang changquan looks like bagua and hsingyi to me.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:22 pm
by Audi
Greetings all,

I have been taught that one of the main faults to avoid in push hands drills is to allow the point of contact to slide around or slip. This was described as a failure to stick. I have also thought of the fault as being the same as having gears slip. Could this perhaps be one of the meanings intended by hua2 chuan2?

Also, for what it may be worth, the push hands drills described in Yuri's text sound similar to the "standard" drills I have learned, although I have never heard the names that are given to them in the text.

Take care,
Audi

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:16 pm
by Louis Swaim
Greetings Audi,

Re: “I have been taught that one of the main faults to avoid in push hands drills is to allow the point of contact to slide around or slip. This was described as a failure to stick. I have also thought of the fault as being the same as having gears slip. Could this perhaps be one of the meanings intended by hua2 chuan2?”

I’m not sure that catches the intended meaning in this particular context. I haven’t encountered hua2 being used in any taiji documents with that particular meaning (a failure to stick), but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been used that way. The more I look into this, however, I am increasingly conviced that the hua2quan2 terminology is a derogatory reference to insufficiently developed gongfu. The Cihai dictionary gives a pertinent definition for hua2 as “superficial and insubstantial (fu2 er3 bu4 shi2), as in skill that is merely crafty or superficial.

I found yet another commentary on the “Ba-wu shisanshi changquan jie.” This one is Meng Naichang’s commentary in his book, _Taijiquan pu yu mipu jiaozhu_ (Taijiquan manuals and secret manuals, annotated. Hong Kong: Hai Feng pub., 1993). Meng glossed the hua2 character as “you2hua2” (oil/slick). Although not a completely unambiguous definition, it seems in line with the “cunning, crafty” meaning. Some of the definitions of you2hua2 are: “slippery and sly; suave and crafty; foxy; insincere; unctuous.”

Take care,
Louis

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:59 pm
by oldyangtaijiquan
In my opinion Taiji Chang Quan is Taijiquan performed in the "Application Frame" (at the "speed" as is used as a martial art). The execution of the "Chang Quan" differs from master to master, because there are many ways to interprete Taijiquan

movements (and each master has his own interpretation).
There is no "Chang Quan" as the "Second form" (like Pao Chui in Chen Style) in the Yang Style. Yes, maybe at the time of "Yang Lu Chan" existed a (fast) form with (the rests of) Chen Style elements - a "primordial" version of Taijiquan that extincted.
In my (re)searching I found that many Taijiquan versions that originate from Yang (Lu Chan) Style has the "advanced" way to practice:
- Wu Jian Quan "Taiji Quai Quan"
- Yang Cheng Fu "Taiji Chang Quan"
- Yang Shao Hou "Small frame"
All these styles (mostly) removed the "old" (Chen) elements from their curiculum and are mainly "fast forms" versions of the "Slow form".
Also as I understand from the Louis Swaim translation of the "Taiji changquan Preface" from the Chen Weiming's book
(I don't understand why Barbara Davis didn't translated that in her book!?) there is no a "Changquan" form! Yang Cheng Fu taught to Chen Weiming "movements" that derivated from "Changquan" (i.e. Long Boxing). The "Taiji changquan" in the book is a creation of Chen Wei Ming who merged Taijiquan and Changquan in a single "form".
Yang Cheng Fu didn't teached Changquan (movements), maybe because it was discontinued from the Curriculum.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:52 pm
by Louis Swaim
--Louis

[This message has been edited by Louis Swaim (edited 11-28-2006).]