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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:48 pm
by Yuri Snisarenko
Is there any special meaning of the three little circles near the big characters? Or it's just kind of punctuation?

http://5-gold.com/images/c7f.jpg

Thanks


[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 09-19-2005).]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:44 am
by JerryKarin
There is a kind of notation that people used to use to indicate the tone of a poyinzi a graph which had variant tone pronunciations with different meanings. However in this case I think it is probably something like underlining. It is somewhat puzzling.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:19 am
by Yuri Snisarenko
Thank you. I am puzzled by it too.


[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 09-19-2005).]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:27 am
by Louis Swaim
Greetings Yuri,

Gu Liuxin writes in his book, _Taijiquan Shu_ (the art of taijiquan) that that particular page is from an original hand-written manuscript of Li Yiyu. When Gu edited and published Tang Hao’s book _Taijiquan yanjiu_ (Researches on taijiquan) in 1964, he said in his notes that he had reasons to doubt that the Four-Character Formula had been written by Wu Yuxiang. Later, however, a Mr. Yao from Yongnian wrote him a letter, saying that in his library he had an original handwritten manuscript of Li Yiyu’s that clearly identified the Four-Character Formula as being written by Wu Yuxiang. He included a photo-reproduction of the page, which is the page you are asking about. Gu published the page, he said, to dispel the doubts he had previously cast on Wu Yuxiang’s authorship.

As for the three vertical circles to the right of those four characters, it looks to me like the larger characters were added by someone as a personal annotation to make it easier to quickly identify the four key terms within a larger manuscript. The circles are just an annotator’s mark to highlight those particular characters.

Take care,
Louis

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:20 am
by Yuri Snisarenko
Greetings Louis,

Very interesting! So it's a photocopy of the original handwritten manuscript of Li Yiyu's and probably added later 'annotation'. It would be interesting to know by whom …. however it could be Li Yiyu himself. Who knows?...

Take care,

Yuri



[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 09-20-2005).]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:49 pm
by Louis Swaim
Greetings Yuri,

Yes, the page is a photocopy from an original handwritten manuscript of Li Yiyu’s. I suspect that the larger characters and markings were added by someone else’s hand, but I’m just guessing. I’m not that good at distinguishing different people’s handwriting!

I’ve seen this kind of annotation marking before—the three vertical circles. In fact, I have a copy of the Hong Kong edition of Wu Gongzao’s book on Wu style taijiquan, which is particularly valuable because it has a color photo-reproduction of Wu Jianquan’s handwritten manuscript of the Yang Forty Chapters. There are a number of pages with this three-circle marking next to key terms, such as “dongjin.” Additionally, the three-circle mark sometimes appears at the top of the line (in the ‘margin’) where the term appears. The annotations are in red ink. That could be the case with the Li Yiyu page as well, but of course we can’t tell because it’s monochromatic.

These marks are, I think, analogous to underlining, as Jerry says, or highlighting. I work my books over pretty well—underlining key passages, scribbling notes or marks in the margins—so that when I review it at some latter time it is easier to locate what I keyed in on in my initial reading. That’s probably what’s going on here.

In any case, it is fascinating to look at this page with the knowledge that it was produced from Li Yiyu’s own hand. Gu Liuxin remarked that it is not known what eventually became of Mr. Yao’s copy of Li Yiyu’s full manuscript, or of the rest of his library. It is sad to contemplate the extent of what has been lost over the years due to political turmoil. So much the better, perhaps, to think about how much remains.

Take care,
Louis

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:01 am
by Gu Rou Chen
Here are some nice examples of Chinese book formatting and highlighting.

http://www.library.metro.tokyo.jp/17/016/17000.html

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:08 am
by Yuri Snisarenko
Greetings Louis,

It is nice to possess a color photo-reproduction of Wu Jianquan’s handwritten manuscript of the Yang Forty Chapters! Is there any kind of explanatory commentary on them in this book?


Greetings Jerry,

Thanks for the link to http://5-gold.com/simplified/simtaichi07.htm ! It's a really great source of interesting stuff. Hao Yueru's works are fascinating. The writing style is brilliant. I am currently trying to read his Main Points of Wu style.

Gu Rou Chen,
Thank you for the interesting link.


Take care,

Yuri.



[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 09-21-2005).]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:33 am
by cheefatt taichi
Hi All,

I have to admit Louis and Jerry's knowledge on Chinese language puts me to shame hahaha....my salute to you guys. Allow me to share some of my personal understanding on `Spread' in the Four Words by Wu Yu Xiang.

To spread is to apply sticking jin on his posture controlling him and making him very uncomfortable and unable to exert strength. Sticking is not merely to listen or tingjin, it is also meant to control hence, we called it nien jin (sticking force). Subtle pengjin force is applied in sticking which aims at controlling the opponent by constantly obstructing his structural strength and alignment. In sticking to control, we capitalize on our whole body force (peng jin) and use it against his centerline forcing him to be struggling all the times. When he applies force it will bounce back at his centerline and put him at a more critical position because of misalignment. Opponent is simply overwhelmed by your sticking force spread all over his every movements, he is controlled by you.

Spreading your force on him this way require a very skillful controlling of your own pengjin. It is a balance between pengjin and ann jin. Opponent doesn't feel the onslaught of An jin to push him away and yet his centerline feels treatened all the times by your pengjin. When a master spread his jin on you, cannot move freely is precisely what will happen to you...in another you are been controlled and force into an akward position. IThis is a higher skills where one's 8 jins become intermingling and lost its individual characteristic.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:07 am
by taichibulldog
Hello all,
This is addressed to Mr. Yuri and Mr. Jerry Karin. Is there anyway I could get those links translated into english? Especially taiji-mgx.com . I thank you both for any help in this matter. peace

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:06 am
by JerryKarin
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taichibulldog:
<B>
Hello all,
This is addressed to Mr. Yuri and Mr. Jerry Karin. Is there anyway I could get those links translated into english? Especially taiji-mgx.com . I thank you both for any help in this matter. peace </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I translated most of Hao Yueru's commentary (taiji-mgx) above on 9/17 between 1:42 and 2:50.


[This message has been edited by JerryKarin (edited 09-21-2005).]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:50 am
by WU
Please find out more about the Four-Charater Formula in the following forum:

http://s13.invisionfree.com/Oriental_Kung_Fu/index.php