Sinking the Qi

Sinking the Qi

Postby Audi » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fol:
Audi, you've now mentioned twice your deeper understanding of "sink the chi." Hmmm--why not try to voice it in detail, for those of us with no understanding at all!--maybe in a new thread?--fol</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How to put feelings into words? How to express what is already better expressed in the classics? I think that everyone has there own approach, and so I fear my own words will not resonate with many others. Basically, I feel that my preparation for ranking led me to put in a reasonable amount of work, and that work paid off as a bunch of different things came together in concrete bodily sensations. As has been said before, enlightenment comes only as an accident, but hard work can help make you accident-prone.

One of the things that excited me at last week's seminar was Yang Jun's repeated mention of Yin Yang pairs. As I recall, the first mention was of "Theory and Application" (Ti3 Yong4)as mentioned in the title of one of Yang Chengfu's books. Louis has talked about this concept many times before. The very idea of a lecture as a prelude to a seminar on form movement seemed itself to embody and respect this principle.

Yang Jun also mentioned what I understood to be the complementarity of "wen2" (the civil) and "wu3" (the martial) in Taijiquan and that to truly know the art, you needed to grapple with both sides. For more on this, you can read chapter 19 of the "Yang Forty Chapters."

Yang Jun also discussed some of the Ten Essentials and how they related to sinking the Qi. In particular, I recall him talking about how external structure was needed to support internal structure, bringing up yet another Yin Yang pair. He made things very concrete, mentioning for example, that exhaling can make it easy to sink the qi and that is why people naturally do this when needing to expend great effort. His main focus, however, was on "Containing the chest," "Lifting the crown of the head," "Loosening the waist," "Tucking in the tailbone," etc.

At times, I have been exposed to approaches to Taijiquan that exalt the "internal" over all else. At the seminar, I found the idea of "external being necessary to support internal" to be liberating, clarifying, and much more consonant with a unity of external and internal. I feel this is actually embodied in one of the 10 Essentials, but many seem not to feel that this idea is of such importance.

Yang Jun also made reference to the Twenty Character Motto and this made me reconsider whether I was truly acting on this within my form and whether there was truly a tight link between sinking qi and the expression of energy. Low and behold, I found that there was. Theory and application came together as one! Image

In the weapons forms, the vibration of the weapon tips can give rough feedback about your ability to transfer energy to the tip. When I combined this feedback with the feeling in my body, even during the barehand form, I began to feel quite clearly the link between the bubbling well (yong3 quan2), my legs, waist, torso, and arms. I could feel springiness in my legs and feet and feel this springiness transfer through my torso to my hands. When I was not extended and loosened up (i.e., song) and did not observe what is set forth in the Twenty-Character Motto, I could feel the force dissipate uselessly between my torso and my arms. There is, of course, nothing new about this. I was mere surprised to have such immediate access to the principle in action.

In chapter 17 of the "Yang Forty," there is a discussion of the Theory of Yin-Yang Reversal. I am not sure I understand what is being referenced, but I have taken it to be referring in part to how "work" gets done in Taijiquan. If you want to put qi to work in your arms and hands, you need to first store it in your dantian. If you want to close effectively, you must first open. To go right effectively, go first to the left. To understand the martial in Taijiquan, make sure to pay attention to the philosophy.

Why sink qi to the dantian and not all the way to the legs and feet? I believe it is because the dantian is where qi actually has the least to do in generating jin (i.e., power). There are no joints in the dantian. If you sink qi here, it is most available to "travel" up and down your body to power joint movement.

What does this mean for someone who is just trying to do the form better and to enjoy Taijiquan to the fullest? If I do form according to the Twenty Character motto, I feel my torso pull my arms in "pulling" movements, such as Cloud Hands, and push my arms with pressure in pushing movements, such as the final punch in Deflect Downward, Parry, and Punch. Since the torso is moved by the legs and "aimed" by the waist, such movement gives a wonderful sense of body unity, especially if you concentrate on limb and joint extension in order to unify the body. If you can get the feet to feel right (i.e., the bubbling well), you get more power to play with. You feel how each of the joints change at different rates, but miraculously seem to calibrate their change together in a natural synchrony that is just beyond conscious control. It feels organic, rather than mechanical.

What can someone do simply to capture the feeling? Well, I recall Yang Zhenduo once advising to concentrate on the orientation and movement of the upper arms. If these are right, the hands must follow. To get them right, you need to get the torso, waist, and legs right. If all this is right, it is easy to sink qi to the dantian. If you do not trap the qi there by making your abdominals rigid, it will be available to support power in the upper body and legs.

I hope this helps.

Take care,
Audi
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:27 pm

Audi,
Your thoughts are, as always, very helpful and in my case extremely timely.
This is one of the things that Bill has been concentrating on with our group for the last couple of weeks. So your words here really hit home with me.
I have always "KNOWN" this, intelectually, but I have not always know this in the body.
Only recently have I truly begun to pay attention to "sink the chest, raise back", and "elbows down, shoulders down". Only recently have I begun to truly understand WHY, "open, rounded, extended" as it is embodied in the Twenty Character Motto is so important.
The return for working on this diligently has been pretty darned good for me as well, in my humble opinion. I'm beginning to feel the chi sink, the connectedness of my arms to my whole body while turning. How if you don't do these things correctly your energy is not connected from lower to upper.
I've only just begun to tap the surface of this phenomenon, but I can see the potential opening up in front of me and I'm quite excited.

Thanks for giving me a better understanding yet on this.
Keep up the good work and the practice, not to mention letting us in on your thoughts and discoveries. It is truly appreciated.

I too have had a lot of good results and "aha moments" come from working on the ranking. I do believe I'm beginning to understand the "why" of the ranking system.
I didn't get it before, as I'm sure you will remember. I was pretty deadset against it, actually.
However, I trusted Bill and the Yang family and figured if they thought it was a good idea I should do it.
Well, now that I've been through it I can see why they all thought it was such a good idea.
I've learned more about myself from ranking than I knew I could.
Oh, I guess I should have posted this last bit on the ranking forum.
Sorry, got OT for a minute!

Bob
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Postby Audi » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:53 pm

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your comments. It seems I may be on the right track.

It occurs to me that there seems to be a greater interest in issuing energy and I did not address this in my post. I am no great expert in this and have not yet focused my training on this area, but I do occasionally practice short energy to explore my body structure and internal structure.

When I now try to issue short energy and sink my qi appropriately, I feel myself momentarily get very heavy, like dropping a bowling ball between the legs. If I follow the Twenty-Character Motto, the heaviness reaches my arms and hands. If I do not, the heaviness stays in my torso.

It is hard to be sure what exactly is going on in such a short space of time, but I think I sacrifice a few inches, or more probably centimeters, to gain a few inches/centimeters of reach/penetration. With my qi sunk, it feels as if additional or independent arm movement is unnecessary. Everything feels incredibly solid and stable, like stamping on a partially inflated football. There is no way the football is going to move.

The resulting internal "pressure" makes my abdomen go out, and I feel most comfortable letting some air out in an explosive breath. If the external circumstances are right, I can feel the energy bounce off the floor and shake it. Although the overall pressure make me feel tight as a drum, any local tightness in any particular joint is very painful, since all the pressure ends up focusing there.

Take care,
Audi
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Postby Pamela » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:13 pm

Wonderful to see you posting again Audi...another intriguing and informative write. Thanks for sharing.

"With my qi sunk, it feels as if additional or independent arm movement is unnecessary."Audi

Yes Image Because the whole body is connected, the arms just naturally go with the flow without effort...I love this feeling~

"When I now try to issue short energy and sink my qi appropriately, I feel myself momentarily get very heavy, like dropping a bowling ball between the legs. If I follow the Twenty-Character Motto, the heaviness reaches my arms and hands. If I do not, the heaviness stays in my torso."Audi

"Everything feels incredibly solid and stable...The resulting internal "pressure" makes my abdomen go out, and I feel most comfortable letting some air out in an explosive breath. If the external circumstances are right, I can feel the energy bounce off the floor and shake it. Although the overall pressure make me feel tight as a drum, any local tightness in any particular joint is very painful, since all the pressure ends up focusing there."Audi

Absolutely...no better way to put it..."incredibly solid and stable"....
I have felt this whole connection, with the weight in the legs...and this resulting "solid and stable" feeling. Other times my "stable" wanes on me though, when I do not effect the twenty characters motto, as you say, the weight seems to stay in the torso, ergo I lose some stability. But when I acheive the bowling ball weight combined with the opening of elbow and shoulder it is wonderful...not only do I feel "solid and stable, and "tight as a drum", but also incredibly rooted to the ground, not just standing atop the mountain, but as though I am the mountain. Yet it's not an encumbering weight, it's a lissome, mobile weight...I do not feel bogged down in the least, which seems kind of ironic...I guess that's where empty and full come into play, and differentiating left and right simultaneously to maintain the lissomeness in the rootedness.

Though I'm not quite sure what you are referring to when you talk about issuing "short energy"...
and about bouncing ones energy off the floor and shaking it...truly at a loss...any elaborations would be kindly welcomed.

Best wishes,
Pamela


[This message has been edited by Pamela (edited 08-16-2006).]
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:28 pm

Audi,
Issuing energy is fun stuff, I think that's why there is so much interest.

When I do issue somewhat succesfully I feel more of a connection to the ground at the moment before I issue, along with a general downward sinking of chi to my torso and my legs feel filled up with spiraling energy, coiled and ready to go. I don't know that I would describe the feeling of the chi sinking as dropping a heavy weight, though I sure would like to because that sounds a lot more powerful, it's actually more like sand sifting down and settling.
IF I'm properly connected, head lifted, shoulders down, elbows down, arms open rounded and extended, chest is sunk, back is raised, dantien is relaxed, hips are rolled forward, kua open, knees in line with toes (pretty big if, actually) then I can issue fairly well at that moment.
Since getting into the proper position is still a bit of a hit or miss proposition with me, I get pretty happy when I feel that feeling of connection and slight heaviness.

That's been my experience with issuing so far. I am working on it.
Taking the push hands seminar with Yang Jun, and then getting excellent advice from Andy Lee, Bill W., Carl Meeks and Michael Coulon has really helped me to get to that proper set up more frequently.

Bob
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Postby chris » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Audi:
Why sink qi to the dantian and not all the way to the legs and feet? I believe it is because the dantian is where qi actually has the least to do in generating jin (i.e., power). There are no joints in the dantian. If you sink qi here, it is most available to "travel" up and down your body to power joint movement.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To paraphrase Sam Tam, you should not sink the qi into the legs and feet because doing so will slow down your response to your opponent.

-----
Chris
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Postby César » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:39 am

Hi!
I found this article which I think it will be helpful to everyone:
"...How Jing Moves
Yang Cheng-fu, the third generation master of the Yang family, said, "Taijiquan is a martial art which is strong in softness, just like iron wrapped in cotton." The iron in Taijiquan is its internal force, achieved through correct and diligent training. First, let’s find out what internal force is. Internal force is very similar to the ordinary force. The main difference is that internal force moves mainly in the joints and bones, and from the feet to the knees, hips, spine, shoulders, elbows and the hands. It is the force of the whole body, and so is stronger than ordinary force and can penetrate deeper and cause internal injury. The development and movement of internal force involves 'song', the lining up of bones and joints, the twining of the legs and waist, and shifting body weight. But we need to know the route of the internal force first.
The route of the internal force

As for the route of the internal force, there are different theories. Most internal stylists believe internal force begins from dan-tian. Master Ma Hong, a famous Chen stylist, said, "Fa-jing (power discharge) should originate and be executed from dan-tian and the waist." But the Taiji classics say, "Jing is rooted in the feet, released through the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested through the fingers." These two statements may appear contradictory, but in fact they are compatible.

Indeed, internal force originates from dan-tian. If we are truly relaxed our jing (internal force) , which originates from dan-tian, will sink to our feet and go up along the path described by the Taiji classics. So the two theories are complementary to each other, as one tells us about the origin of internal force while the other describes how jing, after arriving at the feet from dan-tian, moves from the feet to the hands. When we have to release power quickly (e.g. quick punches), the force can go straight from dan-tian to the hand and out. In this case, the force is divided into two. One part will move down to the feet and the other will make use of this force (that goes down) to go to the hands. The two forces are actually one, just as Chen Xin, a sixteenth generation master of the Chen family, said, "It is divided into two, and yet they are one united force..."
http://www.geocities.com/tukylam/improveqi.htm

César
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Postby fol » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:19 am

I suspect I'm not the only one on this Board who's ordinarily stuck practicing on their own. I think it's possible (if slow) to self-correct some things, once one has a "feel" for what's right. "Sink chi"--I haven't yet been able to find what that refers to. So thanks, all, for trying to convey your experiences!

But don't worry, I won't actually believe anything you say! (until it happens to me)--fol
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
"Internal force is very similar to the ordinary force."
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the moment I think it's quite different. However of course most people, me included, studying IMA may have been using something similar to outer physical force for quite some time.

BTW according to the legend "Zhang Sanfeng first became proficient in Shaolin, but then he left it (literally - returned back) and inverted it (or turned it over) – thus neijia was invented".
That was written by Huang Baijia at the beginning of the Qing dynasty, if I am not mistaken.

IMO the difference is clearly pointed out.



[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 08-17-2006).]
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Postby tccstudent_usa » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:23 pm

From my humble perspective (which changes often), issuing energy and sinking the chi both begin with proper form study as their container. As YSC said, the student must comprehend the substantial and insubstantial completely (which is more than I'm probably aware of at this time). I think this is a crucial factor in gaining that "bottom heavy" feel imo. As an example, I use to think I was rather well connected, but now I realize I was just tipping the iceberg so to speak. After some minor revisions in my form work I realized I was stepping too wide and too far at times, which was getting in the way of totally sinking the weighted foot before stepping out. Since I have shortened my stances to a more reasonable width and distance the inner connected feeling is so much more it's amazing to me (I only wished I figured this out sooner). I can now feel the energy from the bottom of my feet, thru my waist, and to my Yang hand. In turn, my pushing has seemed to improve as well, and that "stable as a mountain" feeling is becoming more and more familiar to me within a dynamic exchange. I am now starting to realize the relationship between form work and push hands.

[This message has been edited by tccstudent_usa (edited 08-17-2006).]
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Postby chris » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:50 pm

It is just nonsense to conflate sinking the qi with fa jing. (Cf. walking and chewing gum at the same time.)
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:03 pm

Disclaimer:
I'm going to be blunt here. If anyone is going to be offended by this bluntness, please do not read this reply.

Chris,
This is going to be as blunt as your statement to us was.
While blunt, I am not trying to anger you, merely to epxress my feelings about your short but totally non-explanatory posting.
That said, you've just told us our position is "nonsense" but you've not told us how we can start to make sense. Without any sort of explanation, and to continue in my blunt theme, you're statement is the only nonsense I've seen here so far.
Don't just tell us we're wrong, we may be but your statement alone doesn't prove that, tell us WHY you think we are and then please prove it. That would make sense out of your nonsense and teach us all a very valuable lesson.
Sorry not to just take you at your word, but I, at least, did not get the official notification, or even one of those little pink "while you were out" memos, declaring you as the ultimate guru of Tai Chi Chuan fajing whose statements are to be taken without question. Short of that, a little bit of explanation is going to be required on your part to convince me of the accuracy of your statement.

Sorry if I've upset anyone's delicate sensibilities with my foray into bluntness. But it's early, I'm allready at work and I've had NO coffee yet. I'll be more polite after coffee, I promise. The pots almost ready, so it shouldn't be long.

Bob

[This message has been edited by Bob Ashmore (edited 08-18-2006).]
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Postby Audi » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:14 pm

Hi all,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">When I do issue somewhat succesfully I feel more of a connection to the ground at the moment before I issue, along with a general downward sinking of chi to my torso and my legs feel filled up with spiraling energy, coiled and ready to go.</font>


I feel this to some extent as well, but wanted to clarify something. Whereas I used to visualize a spring coiled at my feet, I now feel one at my Dantian. As I issue, it springs both up and down. This leaves me feeling very stable and without a sense of springing out of my feet or out of my root. It is like I am pushing hard with all four limbs, but the actions cancel each other out, leaving me still in the middle. I also want to clarify that I am talking about a momentary sensation associated with specifically issuing energy and not with the normal stability we cultivate in doing form.

As I consider it, I think a feeling of pushing and expanding in all directions is characteristic of how Yang Style issues energy in the form, since I can think of very few instances where both feet do not press into the ground. The few contrary instances still seem to include offsetting motions to balance the Jin (e.g., the wrist thrust of Single Whip balanced by the left shoulder and Hiding the Lotus Blossoms in the leaves of the Sabre form that is balanced by the left knee).

This balancing may also be why issuing soft energy is somewhat different from issuing hard energy. Whenever you issue by yourself, something must always counter the energy according to Newtonian physics. With hard energy, you have to concentrate on a counter contraction. With soft energy, you can concentrate more on compensating elsewhere in your body.

César, I think the material you quote also addresses the apparent contradictions in where the qi is supposed to go, but perhaps from a slightly different point of view. An additional concept I can add to the apparent confusion is the idea of "sticking qi to the spine."

How can you send qi to the root in the feet, sink it to the Dantian, and stick it to the spine all at the same time? I think that these are best approached not with a scientific mindset, but rather a mindset focused on subjective feelings.

If your feet do not feel rooted and pressed into the ground, it has hard to feel that you can propel your torso. Without power sunk into your core (i.e., dantian), it is hard to feel that you have anything to transfer to your periphery. At least for me, there is a feeling of dependency and cause and effect, but not much of a feeling of time delay. If you squeeze on one part of a balloon, this increases the pressure throughout and may manifest in a deformation in a distant area of the balloon. This "movement," however, does not rely feel as if it occurs in a clear time flow. It is more simultaneous. To expand power into your hands, you want first to feel it condense against your spine.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I don't know that I would describe the feeling of the chi sinking as dropping a heavy weight, though I sure would like to because that sounds a lot more powerful, it's actually more like sand sifting down and settling.</font>


I mentioned the bowling ball because I have less of a sense of Qi settling and more of a sense of it dropping. It's like everthing goes splat. Imagine stamping on a banana and have the insides fly out. If the qi is not sunk, it feels that issuing energy will make me leap upward or forward and lose control of my body mass.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>Though I'm not quite sure what you are referring to when you talk about issuing "short energy"...
and about bouncing ones energy off the floor and shaking it...truly at a loss...any elaborations would be kindly welcomed.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most demonstrations of applications of Push Hands show long energy, since this is usually more visually dramatic. This energy feels as if it flows through a long path in your body, perhaps a foot or two. This long path continues into the opponent, typically causing him to bounce away a correspondingly long distance. The opponent will actually feel this length, perhaps like the building of a powerful wave. The wave builds and then carries him off with its force, typically without harm or even discomfort.

Short energy feels as if it develops over a short range, perhaps over a few inches or less. Although it can penetrate into the opponent, it feels as if it expends all its power over a correspondingly short range. The opponent feels a more explosive type of energy discharge, rather than a soft, but powerful wave. This energy is hard to receive and neutralize without harm.

If you explode energy forward out through your hands, you must balance this by exploding it out somewhere else. Some people talk about bouncing energy off the floor. In my experience, people who can demonstrate short energy well, will make a gym floor shake just as if they had been jumping down from a height. If their qi is sunk, you will see a tight connection between the energy sent into the floor and what is expressed in the hands.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>I suspect I'm not the only one on this Board who's ordinarily stuck practicing on their own. I think it's possible (if slow) to self-correct some things, once one has a "feel" for what's right. "Sink chi"--I haven't yet been able to find what that refers to. So thanks, all, for trying to convey your experiences!
But don't worry, I won't actually believe anything you say! (until it happens to me)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said! I have any idea about maybe how to feel the difference between sunk and not sunk, although the mechanics are probably not useful for actual training purposes. In other words, this might be an exercise in gaining enlightenment, not an exercise in learning alignment.

Assume the Push Posture with your hands against a wall. Spread your elbows out horizontally and explore what it feels like to push. You should feel the energy immediately rebound back at you. You are unable to apply more than the energy in your arms. Pushing appears senseless.

Now try it with your elbows down, or even pointing slightly towards each other. It should now feel like you might be able to take the wall on (i.e., contend with the wall). Intellectually, you know you cannot push the wall back, but it feels like you can test it a little bit. You feel as if you can apply the energy in your legs and back. As you apply pressure, all your joints change shape in the same proportion.

If you have trouble with this, try pushing with your arms already at maximum extension (naturally straight, but not locked) so that it is impossible to push just with your arms. Then concentrate on pushing with the mass of your torso by pushing with your legs.

So far this may feel only like an exercise in alignment. Now move a way from the wall and try to capture the same feeling. You should feel your shouders flatten and elbows drop slightly. Your pelvis should feel like it tucks under and in in the same proportion, causing your spinal column vertically to drop in the same proportion. (I am talking centimeters or millimeters here.) Your knees and ankles should also change with the same overall pressure. The soles of your feet feel like they do just before you execute a two-legged jump, with pressure throughout the bottom of the foot that is trying to transfer to the ball of the foot. It is the same downward pressure that you feel when you plant your feet to jump up and spike a volleyball or to dunk a basketball, except that you feel it while you are still standing tall and keeping your gaze steady.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Internal force is very similar to the ordinary force."</font>


I find this is a very difficult topic and very confusing to discuss, especially for people still trying to find their way among conflicting advice and approaches. I could both agree and disagree with this particular statement, depending on context and intent. If we are talking science, I mostly agree. If we are talking experientially, I mostly disagree. I generally find in my practice that what I feel is more important than what I might know intellectually or academically and so think of external and internal force as very different. "Throwing" a punch feels different from "releasing" an arrow from a drawn bow.

Before I end another endless post, I wanted to talk a little about language and add some reflections on some additional Yin Yang pairs.

Although we talk about "elbows down and shoulders down" for short, I think it is also worthwhile to consider that the injunction is actually to "sink" the shoulders and "droop" the elbows. I find that the two joints actually do something a little bit different. The Twenty Character Motto is wonderfully thought provoking about this.

Han2 xiong1 ba2 bei4 means to "Contain the chest, pluck up the back." When you contain the chest, you do not fill it with air, but rather have the feeling of collapsing it to form a semicircular container that is empty in front and full towards the back. The Tao Te Ching (Daodejing) talks about usefulness calming from emptiness. A room or a box is useful because of its emptiness. In Taijiquan, my hands and arms will be useful only if I can first empty them and move the fullness to my back and legs. The idea is not to make everything empty, but rather to distinguish full and empty by making my front empty and my back full.

When I relax the waist, it is in order to open the joints in my lumbar spine. Only with the "empty" space between the vertebrae can I make it truly useful, flexible, and adaptive. To open these joints, I have to pull at two ends, not just one. I must thus not only drop my pelvis, but also push up the crown of the head. I can only sink qi well, when I have my spirit lifted?

Keeping all these Yin Yang pairs mutually supportive seems to be one of the things that defines Taiji.

Take care,
Audi
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:46 pm

Audi,
Hmmmm....
I still only feel a "settling" not a dropping. I've been working on this for a couple of days now and that is the feeling I get.
Not a big splat, but a softer feeling. How would you describe the sound a lump of wet sand makes hitting the floor? I don't know how I would describe it other than that.
Maybe I need to look at my positioning.
To be honest, I was thrilled when I started getting a feeling of sinking at all. I hadn't gotten to the point where I was looking for a big sensation, I was quite content with ANY sensation of sinking.
It must be time for me to go back to the drawing board and see if I can get a stronger sense of sinking.
As for long and short energy, your explanations are very much how I've always seen it.
I seem to be able to issue long energy well enough, I can toss my partner quite a ways and they describe a sensation of being carried off by a wave, as you've described. However, my short energy is problematic. I know what you're saying about shaking the floor, I've felt that from time to time.
It just doesn't happen every time.
As I don't want to hurt anyone, I used to practice this with a heavy bag. Unfortunately I was very successful at least one time issuing short, and I actually broke the bag open.
Now, that's not bragging. That bag was WAY old. At least ten years, I'd say closer to fifteen. It was used when I got it and not in the best shape.
I just happened to hit it just right on one very rare occaisson, and it just gave up the ghost.
Come to think of it, the sound of the sand hitting the floor was pretty close to what I feel when I issue...
Anyway...
It's been a few years since I've been able to practice that, as I've never replaced the bag.
Since I can't seem to find anyone who is willing to stand there and let me hit them while I practice issuing short....


Bob
Bob Ashmore
 
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:01 am
Location: Frankfort, KY, USA

Postby chris » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:00 am

Sorry, I thought my statement was clear. Walking and chewing gum are two things you can do at the same time, and that for practical purposes is the extent of their relationship. Is walking a kind of chewing, or vice versa? No, not really.

If I characterize walking as a kind of chewing, then I am talking nonsense, in English or in Chinese.

If I helpfully inform you that the color green is heavier than last Tuesday, how much effort would you put into refuting it? Not much, I presume.

Whether a distinction between sinking qi and fa jing is meaningful, and whether I am "qualified" to make it are two separate issues, neither of which I feel compelled to prove in this forum. Nevertheless, here are two simple experiments you can conduct for yourself.

1) Sit in a chair. Raise and sink the qi. Try not to fa jing.
2) Find a heavy bag. Fa jing. Do not sink the qi.
chris
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:01 am

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