Press application in Raise Hands?

Press application in Raise Hands?

Postby jamiep » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:46 pm

Hi,
In the _Essence and Applications_ book and also in the Yang Style Taiji book, there are pictures and discussions of a "press" at the end of Raise Hands, before the transition to White Crane where the left hand touches the right forearm.
I was curious as to why the move is seemingly no longer taught this way?
Forgive me if this question has been discussed previously in these forums, but I was unable to locate information on it.
Thanks,
Jamie
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:07 pm

I was taught where this Press is "hidden" pretty early on, actually.
If you're interested in finding hidden "Presses" throughout the form, you should also look for the Press in Fan Through Back.
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Postby Yuri_Snisarenko » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:52 am

Raise Hands (the Commencing form) 起势 - is the continues transformation of PENG jin, CAI jin and AN (press) jin in traditional Yang Chengfu style. Like all movements in this style it consists of some of the thirteen SHI (original thirteen positional basics). One just need to be taught to recognize them.

[This message has been edited by Yuri_Snisarenko (edited 09-08-2008).]
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Postby jamiep » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:17 pm

Thanks for the responses. My specific question is whether the press has always been "hidden," or was it explicitly shown in the handform?
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:52 pm

Jamiep,
I don't know anyone who does not teach the application of Press in this form. It is widely understood.
I can't really say that this Press was ever hidden, watching videos of different Yang family memebers and disciples performing this movement clearly shows the energy every time.
While it is difficult for beginners to see this energy expression, more advanced students understand it is there and execute the movement accordingly.
Yang Jun has taught this expression of Press at every seminar of his that I've attended.
My Center Director also points this out nearly every time he teaches this form, as do I.
I have often heard this referred to as a "hidden" expression, but since it's right there in plain sight I've always been at a loss as to why it is considered as such.
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Postby jamiep » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:29 pm

Hi again,
Could you clarify for me please, while practicing Raise Hands and Step Forward in the handform, do you physically press the right arm with your left hand?
The Yang Style Taijiquan book pictures this explicitly and includes it in the instructions for the movement. Fu Zhongwhen's video of him practicing the movement also shows this, I believe.
However, the way I've been practicing this movement is to keep both arms rounded, before the movements of White Crane -- the left hand never makes contact with the right arm to explicitly show "press."
Which is the correct method for the Yang family form?
Thanks,
Jamie

[This message has been edited by jamiep (edited 09-09-2008).]
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Depends on whose form you train or even which form you are doing.
Did your teacher show the palm touching the arm when he taught you the form? That's what matters. Follow your teachers instructions.
In the Traditional 103 Posture Hand Form as taught by Yang Jun the palm does not Press into the arm, only the energy is expressed.
However, the way I was taught the 16 posture form was to include the palm touching the arm along with the energy expression.
It is the expression of the energy that is important.
Which Yang Style Taijiquan book are you refering to? There is more than one...
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Postby Audi » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:07 pm

Greetings Jamie,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> The Yang Style Taijiquan book pictures this explicitly and includes it in the instructions for the movement.</font>

I am not sure if we are referring to the same book, but mine has: “Place left palm on the inside of right forearm near the waist, looking as if it is going to press forward.” I interpret this as meaning that the left palm may brush the inside of the right arm, but there is no need to squeeze the two together and possibly impede the transition into White Crane.

As for the divisions in the movement, I can speculate that as Yang Chengfu revised details in his form and de-emphasized the Shoulder Strike, there may have been some question as to how to divide up the remaining transitional movements. I am not sure I understand all the footnotes in my Yang Style Taijiquan book, but there is no difference in the movement details. The only question is about which transitional movements go with which endpoint.

As we do the form now, the Press energy comes as an interlude in the middle of preparations for White Crane. After Lifting Hands, our attention goes left to initiate the circling (perhaps in response to an imagined push coming from the east (e.g., left), but then we change our attention back to the south (e.g., the original form direction) for the Press and Shoulder Strike energy. Then we shift the attention back to south to conclude White Crane.

I hope this helps.

Take care,
Audi


[This message has been edited by Audi (edited 09-21-2008).]
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Postby Yin Peixiong » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:21 pm

I posted a topic "Lift Hands Upward and Press" on the Tai Chi Chuan - Barehand Form board. Nothing on application, though.
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