Lets see if I got it right?

Lets see if I got it right?

Postby Taichikid » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:09 am

So I have read alot on this forum about, the diffrent theories on yeilding, being soft and hard, going with the opponent. So lets see if I have my understanding correct.

Yielding,

From what my master has told me yielding in tai chi is, to redirect the attackers force with as small of a circle as possible, I translate this as following the curvature of space to redirect the momentum of the oncoming force, almost as though you were a rubber band. If a force is directly applied to you, you do not meet it with intention, but instead first yield to the force instead of interrupting its flow of motion directly, and then merely influence it through space using a small circle. I don't believe that Tai chi describes yielding in the physical contact of actually retreating in any means. After yielding then comes sticking, once you yield to and oncoming force, you are supposed to stick, ie this is why we practice push hands, to learn to stick to an opponent, and develop power hearing as my sifu puts it, the ability to be able and know another intention by listening to his movements by sticking to him. then from yielding we get the sticking from the bend in space where you draw your circle and curve the attack you then apply a multiplying force, to double the amount of force being returned. However I have also been warned to always stay balanced, never over nor under, thus I translate this as when applying the force or intention back to the attacker, if you stray from your peace and balance of mind and body because balance is not in a physical since, the attacker will notice because if you apply to much intention you will be over and the attacker will capitalize, however if you apply to little the attacker will capitalize by returning the force back to you.

From the basic 10 rules of tai chi, to the more advanced rules, I have come to understand that in tai chi sticking, soft and hard, push and pull are illusive and follow a pattern. the push and pull are part of the yielding process, referring to pull as the yield and the push as the redirection and attack, then soft and hard soft referring to the yield as well not meeting force with force but simple yield to be able to capitalize on the force. When fighting an opponent it is imperative to stick to his movements and follow them, although if you tense will not stick if you do not breath you will lose your chi, if you become unbalance you will fall, if you apply to much and become over your opponent will take advantage, if you apply to little the opponent will attack more. Thus the power of tai chi comes from the ability to atincipate the opponents attack and redirect it because you draw a smaller circle.
I have spared with some of the more advanced students, and what I have come to understand how the speed of tai chi is so great but yet at times can look so slow, is accomplished by the ability to anticipate the others attack and because you know the end point you are faster and yet move slower. Also you physically become faster because you stay relaxed, if you tense your muscles it constricts the movement.
Jing is something im still a bit confused on. Sure I can generate fajing, ie


But for some reason I just cant grasp if it is a metaphysical force, or if is just because the way I control the shift in motion.
This is from 1 year ago I have improved much since then. I know to much movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iJ8Ydb6fc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vgEakwxkoA

hows this level of power developed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU
Taichikid
 
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Postby shugdenla » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taichikid:
<B>So I have read alot on this forum about, the diffrent theories on yeilding, being soft and hard, going with the opponent. So lets see if I have my understanding correct.

Yielding,

From what my master has told me yielding in tai chi is, to redirect the attackers force with as small of a circle as possible, I translate this as following the curvature of space to redirect the momentum of the oncoming force, almost as though you were a rubber band. If a force is directly applied to you, you do not meet it with intention, but instead first yield to the force instead of interrupting its flow of motion directly, and then merely influence it through space using a small circle. I don't believe that Tai chi describes yielding in the physical contact of actually retreating in any means. After yielding then comes sticking, once you yield to and oncoming force, you are supposed to stick, ie this is why we practice push hands, to learn to stick to an opponent, and develop power hearing as my sifu puts it, the ability to be able and know another intention by listening to his movements by sticking to him. then from yielding we get the sticking from the bend in space where you draw your circle and curve the attack you then apply a multiplying force, to double the amount of force being returned. However I have also been warned to always stay balanced, never over nor under, thus I translate this as when applying the force or intention back to the attacker, if you stray from your peace and balance of mind and body because balance is not in a physical since, the attacker will notice because if you apply to much intention you will be over and the attacker will capitalize, however if you apply to little the attacker will capitalize by returning the force back to you.

From the basic 10 rules of tai chi, to the more advanced rules, I have come to understand that in tai chi sticking, soft and hard, push and pull are illusive and follow a pattern. the push and pull are part of the yielding process, referring to pull as the yield and the push as the redirection and attack, then soft and hard soft referring to the yield as well not meeting force with force but simple yield to be able to capitalize on the force. When fighting an opponent it is imperative to stick to his movements and follow them, although if you tense will not stick if you do not breath you will lose your chi, if you become unbalance you will fall, if you apply to much and become over your opponent will take advantage, if you apply to little the opponent will attack more. Thus the power of tai chi comes from the ability to atincipate the opponents attack and redirect it because you draw a smaller circle.
I have spared with some of the more advanced students, and what I have come to understand how the speed of tai chi is so great but yet at times can look so slow, is accomplished by the ability to anticipate the others attack and because you know the end point you are faster and yet move slower. Also you physically become faster because you stay relaxed, if you tense your muscles it constricts the movement.
Jing is something im still a bit confused on. Sure I can generate fajing, ie


But for some reason I just cant grasp if it is a metaphysical force, or if is just because the way I control the shift in motion.
This is from 1 year ago I have improved much since then. I know to much movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iJ8Ydb6fc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vgEakwxkoA

hows this level of power developed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is with sadness that I cannot answer the question as stated. If 100 people want to learn a skill, then 200, then 300. etc then 10,000 and only i person who gets it is the personal servant or the in-door favourite, then such an art is either one of the following:
1. Not being taught properly
2. People are being duped and they like it
3. People are being duped and they hate it
4. People have no choice to suck up or be honest
5. All of above
6. They still get no results, then it is not the student but the manner of teaching of the miscreant one who need the adoration of the masses.

Far too many people ask the same question but the results do not change. I wonder why?
That being said, cooperation as in tuishou is a learning tool and never represents an uncoperative exchange! The baiscs are there but the translation in actual exchange is missing!
Keep searching my friend! Sooner or later a master will appear from the heaven and show you the way. Isn't that the belief of the fortune cookie dao. The next best thing is to question, challenge, and study hard!
shugdenla
 
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:36 pm

Taichikid,
I'm assuming the question you're going for is the last one you asked, regarding the high level of skill in the video and how to acquire it.
There is only one answer and it's the same one as the famous answer to this question:
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
Bob Ashmore
 
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Postby Jamie » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:05 pm

Hi TK,


FaJing is not important! The best thing is to trust your teacher and follow his words. If you decide to follow a master then do it with 100% conviction without any room for doubt - as this will definately impede your progress. Your teacher has given you one method of neutralizing but there are many. He has given you the one you are ready for. Your job as his student is to study each thing he gives you one at a time. It is good to research on your own but not at the expense of missing the point. Nothing good comes overnight. Take your time and savour the journey!

Best
Jamie
 
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Postby yielding » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taichikid:
<B>Jing is something im still a bit confused on. Sure I can generate fajing, ie

But for some reason I just cant grasp if it is a metaphysical force, or if is just because the way I control the shift in motion.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry kid, but what you are doing is not fa jin (at least fa jin as I know it). It's much too mechanical and physical in nature to be applicable jin energy. Imho, it looks like you are trying to put the cart before the horse as they say.
yielding
 
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Postby Taichikid » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:05 am

thanks for your replies, I have delved much deeper in to tai chi. Image
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Postby Audi » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:23 pm

Greetings,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">From what my master has told me yielding in tai chi is, to redirect the attackers force with as small of a circle as possible</font>

Depending on how you are taught, how you think, and what your focus is, it might be better to focus on the "most appropriate circle," rather than "as small of a circle as possible."

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I translate this as following the curvature of space to redirect the momentum of the oncoming force, almost as though you were a rubber band.</font>

I prefer thinking about the "redirection" as coming from the sticking ("nian").

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">But for some reason I just cant grasp if it is a metaphysical force, or if is just because the way I control the shift in motion.</font>

In my view, there is nothing metaphysical; however, there can often be something quite subtle that can seem a little bit metaphysical.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>hows this level of power developed
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU[/b]
]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU[/url]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To get could skill you need good listening, understanding, sticking, adhering, connecting, and following. Above all, you need to understand how to distinguish full and empty.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If a force is directly applied to you, you do not meet it with intention</font>

People use "intention" in two different ways. In traditional Taijiquan, the techniques come from the opponent's movement, and so it is impossible to have predefined tactics. On the other hand, traditional Taijiquan strongly focuses on the "mind intent" as something to be developed in your practice. I find this hard to define briefly in words, but easier to demonstrate. I think of it as how the mind relates to the body and what it is doing. For example, just because you are hitting something with a hammer does not mean that your mind is actually telling your hand to use the hammer as a hammer and to exploit its unique hitting properties.

Take care,
Audi

[This message has been edited by Audi (edited 02-01-2009).]
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