Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby pyyp23 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:26 pm

Hi Audi,
it's been a while.
I think because my instruction has been more informal than formal I dont really know where to split beginners push hands with intermediate and advanced push hands. When I was taught, we were given principles as and when we were ready so the push hands was constantly improving rather than learn basic and advanced. I thinks this is causing me confusion with what you are describing.

It would be good for me to get to a workshop sometime to allow me to see in person what is being described. Hopefully next time yang jun is in England I will have the time and finances to attend.
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Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby UniTaichi » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:18 pm

pyyp23 wrote:Hi Audi,

moving the Jin like drawing silk,
rooted in the feet, developed by the legs, guided by the waist, and showing up in the hands and fingers
loosening the waist,
sinking the Qi to the Dantian,
sticking Qi to the back,
emitting Jin like shooting an arrow.
loosening the abdomen
distinguishing full and empty.

My understanding of fa-jing follows these "maxims" particularly looseing the waist and abdomen.
All fajing should follow the same principles regardless of how and when it is done.

What i mean by letting the explosion carry the body is imagine the strike hitting its target. If the waist is completely loose after the strike, it will snap back in the opposite direction and back again repeatedly until all the energy exerted is dissipated, a bit like a ball bouncing.

If you were to physically turn the body back and forth rather than "allowing the explosion to carry the body" then in my opinion, your waist would not be loose.

I would turn my waist on the initial strike to guide the fa-jing and then let the shake/explosion take over.
In principle, with each turn of the shake you could strike again with the opposite side of your body so left-right-left etc potentially creating continiously flowing strikes.

Regards,
Pete

p.s. if you are interented in having a look at what we do and how we do it up close, i understand Eli (Erle's son) is holding a workshop in the states next month. For when, where and how much you'd have to contact him via his website.


Hi Pete,

What you are refering to is IMO ''Whole body Jin'' or using ''shen fa'' to utilized the spiral energy from ground, thru feet, leg, waist and out from hand. In this type of fajin, both the hand or hands must arrive together with the feet, while maintaining body structure at all time. The residue 'oscillation' energy from the 1st strike will be used to generate the momentum of the next strike or continuous flowing strikes. Most if not all IMA uses this method to hit together with stomping. This can be found in the Chen style and some old form of Yang. Maybe you are learning those ?

On Erle fajin using the sound of Heng or Hai and ''lose himself'' when doing it. We are training something similar but at the most we 'hiss'. Very small movement in the arms, expressing it out from our fingers, with very slight body movement. Hardly as we improved. We do not use the ''lose oneself''. What we do or not do, is (not to)think of the opponent.

For the Peng arm, I learned both the Yang Jun and your style of Peng energy. We also do not let the arm collapsed into the abdomen. If it does that means our structure integrity is down and opened to attack. In keeping this structure, we have to ''hold in the chest and rounded our back'' as well as the other maxims etc. It was while doing these PH, I experienced the feeling of //Advancing, he finds the distance longer, Retreating, the distance seems exasperatingly short//

About your Qte// Yes we use force but never resist // UQte. To used force or Li is also contrary to the taichi principles. Unless your force meant using sufficient Li to hold up your structure, then I am in agreenment.

As for the Explosive FaJin, so far you(Pete) have not given a clear picture of how it ''feel'' like when one get hit by one. I always asked this Question everytime I come across fajin demos at various workshops. Maybe you can elaborated in your next post. Anyway in the Explosive fajin that we train, when hit, one feel like he is being hit by an electric charge and jump up or goes backward and jumping at the same time, depending on the ''intent'' of the firing partner. In the old days, the Master like Yang LC, would train fajin very aggressively causing damages ( so that they can confirm if it works I supposed) and therefore not many dare to be the partner. I read these in some write-ups of how they train in the old days. But in this era, the teacher only use 10-15% of their internal energy when giving demo or during training. Because of this ''safety'', most view these demos as fake and also weak as they don't seem to inflict much damage.

To understand where this Jin come from, I like to quote what IMO a very clear explanation in relation to Qi and Jin. // Jin is the manifestation of Qi in Combat form.// It comes from the Dantian. The ''descriptive'' feeling that I have from the 13th Taichi Postures is // Direct the Qi like threading the 'nine bend pearls', by flowing continuously, like tempered steel, it reaches everywhere, overcoming all solid defences.//

Anyway, I hope you find the above useful. :)

Cheers,
D
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Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby pyyp23 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:50 pm

Hi D,

For clarification I am training in erles line of taiji.
What system are you training in?

You hit the nail on the head. We use enough force to hold our structure. I get the theory that the association use regarding emptying during push hands but I just think that allowing someone to collapse your arm leaves you open to a strike.

The feeling when being struck with out fajing is hard to describe. It's like the pain goes straight through you followed by weakness. I've never been struck with full force but have been clipped with seemingly innocuous shots which have swollen and taken weeks for the pain to fully disappear. I've also taken shots through shields and you can feel the impact through them.

I don't know if this helps you understand what I mean.

Regards,
Pete
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Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby UniTaichi » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:02 am

Hi Pete,

For ''bow/arrow'' fajin CMC, Huang Sheng Shyan lineage. For ''Dantian'' similar to Erles, I learned it under Wu Style Taichi.

In the CMC, HSS taichi, they too let the arm ''come in'' and they have their own principle behind it.

I was hit with some mild one and the force can be felt shooting up to my neck like an electric jolt. I would not call it ''feel weak'' but if the other guy decides to do any thing else, I don't think I am in any position to stop him. How one feel would depend on how good your structure (in disspating the jin) and the force used on you. Learning Internal fajin can be damaging. While training a follow practitioner accidentally (he was somewhat not focused) fajin into me instead of through me. The jin went into the bone and ''exploded''. Luckily it was not full power and 'half'' executed and the jin went into my bicep bone and not my vital organ. I can feel the residule energy in my bone still after 4 months. After this incident, I can really understand what is meant by internal striking.

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby pyyp23 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:52 pm

Hi UniTaiChi,

CAn you elaborate on what bow/arrow fajin is? I havn't been trained formally in taichi and it isn't a term i've come across. The only fajin i understand is the shaking stuff that has been described.

Regards,
Pete
pyyp23
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:48 pm
Location: UK

Re: Essence and Applications of Taijiquan

Postby UniTaichi » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:43 am

pyyp23 wrote:Hi UniTaiChi,

CAn you elaborate on what bow/arrow fajin is? I havn't been trained formally in taichi and it isn't a term i've come across. The only fajin i understand is the shaking stuff that has been described.

Regards,
Pete


Hi Pete,

To answer your question on ''bow and arrow'' . I am not that good in writing but this fajin is using ''compressed'' energy. Eg. you are in the An or Ji position, with both hands in An. To use this fajin, your structure of the body and hands must be maintained when your partner come in with his energy. Once you feel it coming or touches you, you moved your knees slightly forward horizontally, hands, elbow and body moving as one unit or structure at the same time. The whole body is like a bow. Moving forward is like releasing the bow. You can said the Jin is the arrow or the partner shooting backward ''became'' the arrow. Depending on how individual teacher described it.

There are also loads of material on it eg. this forum in the older posts. To see how it is done, please google youtube under ''mike phillips 2011 youtube video '' . He did a very good demo and teaching on few of his students on what I described (hope you understand) above.

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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