Ranking System

Ranking System

Postby Isaac888 » Mon May 21, 2012 1:58 am

Just wanting to clarify the statement on ranking of the Yang Chengfu system. It was mentioned that one will be qualified to enter the ranking arena if one is 8 years and above. Now, what does this mean?
Does it mean that a child who is 8 years and above and have been practicing yang Tai chi for one year, is eligible to enter the ranking test or one has to practice for at least 8 years in the Yang family Tai Chi before eligibility sets in?

Sometimes, conversing or translating simple English to Chinese can carry a different meaning. It could mean life and death of a system, a person, or a thing.

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

Isaac888- Education
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Audi » Sat May 26, 2012 11:18 am

Hi Isaac8888,

Does it mean [] a child who is 8 years and above and have been practicing yang Tai chi for one year...?


Yes, you can rank for Level One after practicing for only one year, as long as you are at least eight years old.

This page has the information.

Sometimes, conversing or translating simple English to Chinese can carry a different meaning. It could mean life and death of a system, a person, or a thing.


Such ambiguities or mistranslations would indeed be unfortunate. If you don't mind my asking, how was it translated into Chinese?

Take care,
Audi
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Isaac888 » Sun May 27, 2012 5:13 am

Hi Audi,
How is it going? I really don,t mind sharing the misinformation which was revealed by spoken words from someone who spent most of his life in Chinese education. Not me. As for me, I am like a fish out of the water even when conversing in Mandrian.

During one of our lessons in the Yang Cheng Fu session, the administrator, who is very verse in Chinese, announced that one need to have 8 years of practice in any Yang form to be eligible for the first ranking test. Probably this decree came from the China Yang Cheng Fu office. ( my inference... I have a lot of those lately and sometime it kills the cat).

I was baffled by such statement for reading it in the Yang Cheng Fu web site, it was clearly mentioned except the word child was omitted. Thus, this question was posted in the forum. Yesterday, in class, I did bring out this subject again and the same person mentioned otherwise. Which again means that there is no consistencies in the reply....sigh

Anyway, no offence was meant, for it was just some clarification and seeking the correct answer and truth on the subject.
If you ask me what it means in the English to Chinese translation, well .... Here goes.

"Practitioners of Yang Style TCC must be 8 years or older,achieve a score of at least 7 points in the entry level test on the first section of the form, and receiving teaching in the moral code of martial arts in order to enter the ranking system."

It was conveyed as, those who practice yang style tai chi for 8 years or older, achieved a score of at least 7 points in the entry level test on the first section of the form, bla bla bla.

Thus, the need to clarify even though it is written in simple English. Walk around china and read those direct translation from Chinese to English and you will find the following among others.
1. Open for business ... Do business
2. No smoking ... Cannot smoke cigeratte

Again, no Offence meant when posting this question and thank you for your kind clarification.
I detect some anger in the reply.

Cheers... And as the famous word.. Do take care

Isaaq888

Btw, what is this 7 point in the entry level.
Point 1
Point 2
Point e
Etc
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Isaac888 » Sun May 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Some of the examples..

Cheers
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Isaac888 » Sun May 27, 2012 1:21 pm

Do Business
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Audi » Mon May 28, 2012 1:50 pm

Hi Isaac888,

Again, no Offence meant when posting this question and thank you for your kind clarification.
I detect some anger in the reply.

Are you saying that you thought I was angry? If so, I can assure you that I was not angry at all. I am always trying to better my pitiful Chinese and so was just curious how that part of the rank specifications had been translated into Chinese.

I am aware of the difficulty of translating back and forth from Chinese to English and have seen examples like the ones you posted (although the dinosaur one seems almost correct to me). The one I recall most vividly is 小心地滑 being translated as "carefully slip on the floor," instead of as "careful, slippery floor." Almost every Push Hands class, I remind my students that "relax" and "fangsong" (放松), "push" and "an" (按), "soft" and "rou" (柔), waist and "yao" (腰). etc. are not quite the same in meaning. It is not so much that the English meanings make people do things that are against the theory as that they lead people not to do things that we also require them to do in many circumstances. Our "relax" often requires that you do more, not less. Our "push" can require you that you even bring the opponent's technique toward you. Our "soft" is what we use to generate hard energy. You can visibly use our "waist" without twisting at all. These things can be hard to understand or accept if you use only the English words as a guide to practice.

Btw, what is this 7 point in the entry level.
Point 1
Point 2
Point e

These points refer to the scoring points awarded by the judges. As you go for higher ranks, your score must be higher and higher. Ten would be a perfect score. We separate the points into three areas, called: Jing 精, Qi 气, and Shen 神.

By Jing, we mean how close the movements are to our standard of the form. By Qi, we mean how well the practitioner shows he or she can demonstrate the energy behind the movements. By Shen, we mean how well the practitioner shows the proper spirit. You can show standard movements, but make small mistakes that make the energy unusable. You can show the right energy, but do it with a spirit that shows you probably would not be able to make it work in real time.

It also works in the other direction. I was working with a student recently, having him practice a Rollback application on me. I could see that although he knew the correct movements and even knew what was necessary to use the energy, his gaze was wrong and therefore showed the wrong spirit. This scattered all his energy. As he applied the technique to me, he made my arm uncomfortable, but I did not have to move my feet and felt still in reasonable control. When I corrected his gaze, he sharpened his intent, focused his movements properly and swept me from my stance as he broke out into a surprised giggle and I looked ahead to make sure I would not smash into the nearby wall.

The judging system inherently puts more emphasis on standard movements, which is what allows level-one practitioners to pass with a 7 and only a minimal understanding of energy and spirit. Making no obvious mistakes in your movements, which is quite achievable for most people, would give you 6 points. As you progress to higher levels, making your movements standard becomes less and less sufficient to allow you to pass and it becomes more and more important to focus on energy and spirit. I think that a child younger than 8 years old would have great difficulty understanding even the most basic Tai Chi principles and that is probably why the age limit was set.

Take care,
Audi
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