Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby UniTaichi » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:34 am

Hi Dave, Louis,

I have another explanation from Li HeSheng book '' Secrets Of Internal Power Revealed'' Yang Style Taijiquan Old Six Sets, which I want to share.

His explanation as follows;
1) 內固精神,外顯安逸。
Consolidate spirit internally; appear at ease and comfortable externally.
- If your internal energy is upright, spirit will consolidate by itself; externally, you appear to be calm as if nothing has happened.

2) 尚氣者無力,養氣者純剛。
Those with momentum have no strength; those without momentum are really strong.
- ''Energy'' or 氣 here refers to external momentum. Those who are fierce with momentum have no strength; whereas, those who do not appear to have momentum are really as tough as pure steel.

My own reading for ''external momentum'' is muscular strength. Therefore, those with fierce muscular strength have no ''real'' internal strength and those who are ''relax'' are like pure steel. So all of us is on the similar understanding. lol.

Li HeSheng advocate any translations to be simple and short. IMO, once we understand the principle we should explained it in our own words iso translating word for word. I find Dave's "One who values qi will not use muscular strength; one who nurtures qi is genuinely strong." is direct and to the point.

On the ''mistakes'' find in the earlier translation, I find that most of the ''mistakes'' are simply, simplier words with same meaning, saying basically the same thing. 不要從己 should be 不要由己; 從己則滯 should be 由己則滯; 以己從人 should be 以己依人; 則無滯重之虞 should be 則無遲重之虞; and 動如江河 should be 動若江河. For myself, both works and some I can understanding better and clearer. And of course there were always be genuine mistakes, that's for sure.

However, I am still checking out 足雖蹈之 / 足之蹈之; which Audi and Louis found to be wrong or awkward.

One other way to have more contribution is to get the members to give the translations in their own words and/or get their individual teachers to explained and post it here. For these two verses, I think we have established some sort of understanding. :D

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Phocion » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:19 pm

Hi Louis and Uni. Thanks for the replies. There is much to think about here.

I'd like to focus on the sentence: 尚氣者無力,養氣者純剛.

As a preliminary, I note the points in which we are in agreement. I agree that using strength against strength is proscribed in taiji, and I agree that nurturing qi is good. The question unresolved in my mind is whether being "without strength" (無力) is good or bad.

You are right, Louis, that there is an important distinction between "having strength" and "using strength." But presumably we are to have strength in order to use it. We are proscribed from using strength against strength. And in the Lun we find, "The strong beating the weak, slow hands yielding to fast hands, these are from innate natural ability and do not involve the results of study and accomplishment" (有力打無力,手慢讓手快,是皆先天自然之能,非關學力而有為也.).

So, if using strength against strength is proscribed, and using strength against weakness is mere natural ability and not taiji, in what circumstances may we use strength within taiji?

Or perhaps Wu is using 力 in the sense of work or effort. Then I suppose the clause could be read as a complaint about all those taiji hippies who talk about qi but don't do the work. I wouldn't swear this was the correct rendering, but it's a long-standing complaint and a position with which I am in sympathy.

My feeling is that we may be dealing with differing stylistic approaches to strength here. I'm sure Chen practitioners have a different take on strength than, say, Zheng Manqing guys do. So the question is, if we don't have an indisputably clear statement from Wu himself, what do the people who claim direct lineage from Wu Yuxiang say about strength? I admit I don't quite understand the passage you cite in the commentary from that Wu website. But if I get the drift, they think having strength is a good thing. If that's case, then Wu intended "without strength" to be understood as a bad thing. If that's the case, that's the way the passage should be rendered.

But I'd still like an an indisputably clear statement from Wu on the subject, if one exists.

Thanks very much for tip about the importance of Mengzi for understanding Wu's writings. I'll have to look at the Gong Sun Chou chapter closely--although the last time I tried to translate Mengzi, I found it somewhat over my head.

And thanks for the heads-up about that upcoming cliff. Lieh isn't the only one afraid of heights.

And I second Uni's request that more people chime in on the conversation. I'm sure there are others who have valuable insights.

Cheers!
Dave
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby UniTaichi » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:05 am

Hi Dave,

The following could explain (有力打無力,手慢讓手快,是皆先天自然之能,非關學力而有為也.) which I found very useful in understanding taichi verses. It explained in plain words rather than like explaining the Da Vinci Code with another set of code.

((( 然而很多人单纯的认为学太极拳是不用力的,那么,太极拳真的可以不用力吗?

从《太极拳使用法》中看“用力”和“不用力”对于太极拳而言都是错误的,也就是都不属于太极拳。凡物体发生运动必定是有力量发生作用的。所以,从这一原理出发也可以明白练拳之肢体既运动又“不用力”不能理解为广义的“没有用力”和“没有力”。)))以手臂而言,一般人手臂发生运动是由于肩臂局部肌肉的缩短、拉长、等长等收缩所引起的,说太极拳不用力,是不用这种以筋骨为主的明力,而是要用以气、以神为主的内力,来去变化极快,可以打人于不知不觉之中。对于近代太极拳家而言,这就是狭义的“用力”;而因为凡力都可以在一定的条件下发生传递,人体在某 些体内反应下也能够使脚下发生的力向上发生传递,这种力也可以使得手臂发生运动,这种力就被《杨氏老谱》与近代太极拳家称为“气”或“劲”。太极拳就是以这种“气”或“劲”使得手臂发生运动的。具体地说:太极拳功夫越深,练拳时手臂中局部主动的力就会越小,直至真地感觉不到手臂在主动用力,别人也感觉不到其手臂在主动用力;而练拳时手臂中局部主动的力越小,就越能够发出由脚而起的力;尽管这样太极拳锻炼之初、中期的人手臂局部仍还有狭义的“用力”存在,然而手臂中存在的还有“气”或“劲”,到了中期以后则会主要是“气”或“劲”,甚至几乎全是“气”或“劲”了,局部主动的用力会几乎没有了。

初学太极拳时,由于是边理解拳理边做动作,往往是顾此失彼,精神容易紧张,这是正常的现象。因此,初学者的意念主要应集中在身法、身型,步法、步型,手法、手型等规范的动作上。待动作熟练以后,思想就能做到专一,心意自然就会静下来。只要持之以恒地修炼,功夫就会越练越深,就能达到纯静专注,气势腾挪,开合有致。

Basically it says (((('' So a large number of practitioner learn taichi without using strength, is it really not using strength ?
From the taichi technique manual, ''use strength'' and ''don't use strength'' both are not correct in taichi, and not according to taichi. All live and moving animals and human need strength to move. From this view point, we can understand that the taichi saying of '' not using strength'' does not mean ''no strength being used'' or ''no strength at all'' ))) -- I will stop here as my Chinese is not what it used to be. It never was. lol. Anyway, hope you guys understand what I am ''translating.''

Perhaps, Louis and Audi (and others) can come in and give a better translation for the whole passage.8)

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Louis Swaim » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:15 am

Greetings Dave,

My opinion is that Wu Yuxiang would not be inclined to say that having no strength would be a desirable objective. I do think this issue of strength in taijiquan has generated some confusion, and that even talking about strength in taiji has become something of a bugaboo. Some of that may be the result of certain rhetorical conventions in taijiquan, and some of it may be just the stubborn persistence of a misunderstanding among latter day taijiquan enthusiasts.

What did Wu Yuxiang say about strength? In the Mental Elucidation, he wrote, “The strength issues from the spine.” 力由脊發. He also wrote, “Arriving at the extreme of yielding softness, one afterward arrives at the extreme of solid hardness.” 極柔軟. 然後極堅剛. And, “Mobilize jin that is like well-tempered steel, capable of breaking through any stronghold.” 運勁如 百 煉鋼. 無堅 不催.

You mentioned Zheng Manqing. Even Zheng Manqing mentioned strength in a positive way in the fajin section of his book, Thirteen Treatises:

腳腿腰能完整一氣。一則。是力聚。可以致遠。一則。身不散亂。方可命中。

I translate this: "The feet, legs, and waist can be integrated into one qi. On one hand that means the strength is assembled together (li ju 力聚), and may reach far (zhi yuan). On the other hand, it means the body is not scattered and confused (san luan) and is able to be directed to hit the mark.”

It’s that principle of integration which makes the taijiquan approach to skilled movement unique, and a matter of strength being assembled together, or, as Li Yiyu put it in his Five Character Formula, “The jin is integrated. The jin of the whole body is trained to become one family.” 四曰勁整. 一身之勁, 練成一家.

The simple reality is that it requires strength to stand upright. One needs strength in order to move in any way—whether to move heavy furniture, or to make muffins in a bowl. Strength does not necessarily entail an expenditure of a huge amount of energy. A calligrapher needs strength to move her brush skillfully. To do the taijiquan solo form skillfully and beautifully certainly requires strength. The issue is how to manage strength, how to avoid deploying it in a manner that will result in struggle and resistance, how to borrow it and use it when it’s presented by an opponent, and how to engage it economically and efficaciously.

Back to Mengzi. I pointed out his influence on Wu Yuxiang for a very specific reason. Wu’s exposition closely reflects Mengzi’s ideas in language and logic. Remember that in Wu Yuxiang’s Mental Elucidation, he quotes Mengzi directly when he says, “When the qi is cultivated in a straightforward manner, there will be no harm.” In the Mengzi, where those words come from, Mengzi is talking about cultivating his “vast flowing qi” 浩然之氣. He remarks that “It is a qi that is exceedingly great, and exceedingly strong. Cultivated in a straightforward manner, without harming it, it fills the space between the heavens and earth.” 其為氣也,至大至剛,以直養而無害,則塞于天地之閒。Notice that Wu even used the word Mengzi used for strength, gāng 剛, and in both cases, it’s a good thing.

Take care,
Louis
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Audi » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:09 am

Greetings all,

I only have a moment before push hands. But what does "culto ate vast flowIng Qi mean? And why would this concern a Confucian?

Take care,
Audi
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Louis Swaim » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:21 am

Audi wrote:Greetings all,

I only have a moment before push hands. But what does "culto ate vast flowIng Qi mean? And why would this concern a Confucian?

Take care,
Audi


Greetings Audi,

Whether Mengzi’s idea of cultivating his vast flowing qi would match up squarely with a taijiquan master’s notion of cultivating qi is probably not as relevant to my point as is the fact that Wu Yuxiang found something analogous in Mengzi’s concept that resonated with his taijiquan understanding. I’m just saying that Wu Yuxiang’s writings reflect a strong identification with Mengzi’s presentation, in language and logic. Also, whether it is something that would concern “a Confucian” is probably moot, for a number of reasons.

My first encounter with Mengzi’s term haoran zhi qi 浩然之氣 was around 1974 when I’d just begun studying taijiquan with Gate Chan. I bought a used copy of a book by Feng Youlan (Fung Yu-lan) with the title The Spirit of Chinese Philosophy. Feng devoted a good bit of discussion to the term and the Mengzi section in which it appears. Feng notes that by the time Mengzi lived, qi had come to connote a concept that was physical, metaphysical, psychological, and physiological. When Mengzi said that he was good at cultivating his vast flowing qi, he was talking about a sort of psycho-physiological disposition by which he experienced a sense of identification with his total environment. The Gong Sun Chou 公孫丑 chapter of Mengzi discusses bravery, physical valour, martial prowess, moral uprightness, and how to achieve “an unperturbed mind.” It’s within that context that Mengzi discusses cultivating his 浩然之氣. It’s neither exclusively nor explicitly a Confucian idea. At the time Mengzi wrote, there was a good deal more convergence among Confucian and Daoist thinkers and practitioners. Mengzi likely was one of the thinkers that hung out at the Jixia Academy that included quite a syncretic bunch, so there was plenty of cross-pollination.

What’s pertinent to Wu Yuxiang is the way Mengzi described his method of cultivation. He didn’t directly concern himself with qi, but rather with the direction (志) of his mind. As long as the mind took the right direction, the qi would follow. This is very much the model Wu evokes in his writings.

This was evidently clear to whoever wrote the commentary to Wu’s classic in Yang Chengfu’s Taijiquan Shiyongfa. Here’s a snip from Paul Brennan’s translation we began discussing in the other thread:
++++
練太極是養氣之法,非運氣之工作也,何為運氣人心急有力弩氣練法,氣必聚一個地方,放出不易,恐與內有妨碍,何為養氣,孟子云我善養吾浩然之氣,不急不燥,先天氣生,靜心養性,練拳使內精氣神合一,行氣流通九曲珠,如未得到益定無害也,與人敵不使膊伸直,能上下相隨,步隨身換,膊未直而力有餘,敵早跌出,就是勁以曲蓄而有餘。

Practicing Taiji is a method of nurturing energy rather than a project of wielding energy. What is meant by wielding energy? If a person’s training method is impatient, insistent, or angry, the energy will inevitably accumulate in one place and it will be difficult to send an opponent away due to the impeding of it internally. What is nurturing energy? Mengzi said, “I am good at nurturing my noble energy.” By being neither anxious nor impetuous, innate energy will manifest. By calming your mind and restraining your temperament, practicing the boxing will cause essence, energy, and spirit to merge within. By moving energy as though through a winding-path pearl, then even if you have not gained the upper hand, you have kept yourself from corrupting your energy.”
From Brennan, http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... hiyong-fa/
++++
Note the use of the term 浩然之氣? Not only did it appear in Yang Chengfu’s book, it also was used by Chen Weiming in his commentary on the same classic. Here’s Brennan’s translation of that:
++++
孟子曰。吾善養吾浩然之氣。至大至剛。以直養而無害。則塞乎天地之間。太極拳蓋養先天之氣。非運後天之氣也。運氣之功。流弊甚大。養氣則順乎自然。日習之養之而不覺。數十年後。積虛成實。至大至剛。至用之時。則曲蓄其勁。以待發。旣發則沛然莫之能禦也。

Mengzi said: “I am good at nurturing my noble energy… until it is vast and strong. I use integrity to nurture it and do not corrupt it, and thus it fills up the world.” [Mengzi, chapter 2a]
Taiji Boxing is a matter of nurturing the energy you were born with rather than wielding the energy of habits. Exercises of wielding energy are big frauds, but in nurturing energy you are going along with what is natural. Practice every day, nurturing it, but do not be overly aware of it. After several decades, so much emptiness will have been amassed that it turns into fullness, “vast and strong.” Then when you make use of it, your crooked parts will store power and standby to issue. Upon issuing, it will be so abundant that no one would be able to resist.
From Brennan, http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... -quan-shu/
++++
Other taijiquan masters have mentioned Mengzi’s idea of 浩然之氣, including Zheng Manqing (Thirteen Treatises), and, I think Da Liu. I’m inclined to think they were all following Wu Yuxiang’s lead, and probably with good reason, no?

Take care,
Louis
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby yslim » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:25 am

Audi wrote:Greetings all,

I only have a moment before push hands. But what does "culto ate vast flowIng Qi mean? And why would this concern a Confucian?

Take care,
Audi


Hi Audi

“vast flowing qi” ....This 浩然之氣, in Chinese character is means to the Chinese sage of the ancient one such as Confucius is not the the same qi/chi that we are using in martial art today. To those ancient one they are gong-ho all about the up-righteous Movement. Do the "right-thing for the greatness" Movement. It is a greater than the life itself. This 浩然之氣 is means "the natural greatness of a soul". That kind of chi ! That is why the sage is not that easy to come by. Since i know that you know what is "wude/the virtues of martial art". You sounded like such kind of guy,a up-righteous member in Yang Family Taijiquan. Now do you mind to " culto ate vast flowling Qi". Go for it ! it can do you no harm. The Taiji Bible tell us so. Do it for the sake of the Family of Taiji and never mind about Confucius. He did alright for himself.

My moment is up...
Ciao,
yslim
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Phocion » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:06 pm

Hi Louis,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't make myself clear, but I think we are talking about two kinds of strength. The strength used to make muffins, lift your coffee cup, or do many of the myriad things we do everyday usually involves just a limb and associated muscles. I'll call this localized muscular strength, or localized strength for short.

Zheng Manqing's lines you quote seems to me to be about a different kind of strength. "The feet, legs, and waist can be integrated into one qi" is a kind of integrated, whole-body strength. The line from the Classics Zheng is referencing says "Its root is in the foot, issued by the leg, controlled by the waist, moved by the fingers." Clearly we are talking about the connecting up and integration of the body, and I agree with you that "It’s that principle of integration which makes the taijiquan approach to skilled movement unique, and a matter of strength being assembled together."

And qi is clearly involved in the process of integration. As the Classics have it, "From the foot to the leg to the waist, always must be connected by one qi." And Wu Yuxiang tells us, in the second half of the line from the Explanations we've been discussing (尚氣者無力,養氣者純剛) that "one who nurtures qi is genuinely strong." I read the line to mean the integrated strength we agree is key to taijiquan.

So how to interpret the first half of the line from the Explanations?

I don't think we differ much on the reading of the line, as I am comfortable with your “The one who emphasizes qi will have no strength." But what kind of strength can Wu be talking about? If integrated strength is what we wish to achieve in taiji, and nurturing qi is they way to attain it, I don't think Wu can be mean we will lack integrated strength if we emphasize qi. But since valuing or emphasizing qi is already to move down the road toward integrated strength, I think he must mean that one who emphasizes qi will be without/will not use localized muscular strength.

Be that as it may, gravely stepping through this hermeneutical minuet is not getting us closer to finishing a translation. We agree on what the line says, but we happen to disagree on what the line means. I'm willing to put the question meaning in my basket of loose ends (of which I have enough to knit a sweater) and move on.

I hope to have some more lines later today.

Cheers!
Dave
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Phocion » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:17 am

Next lines:

彼不動,己不動;彼微動,己先動。以己依人,務要知己,乃能隨轉隨接;以己粘人,必須知人,乃能不後不先。
If the opponent does not move, I do not move; if he moves just a little, I move first. By this means I comply with the opponent. In such affairs you must know yourself, thus you can follow and turn, follow and receive. By this means you stick to the opponent, and necessarily know him, and thus you are neither behind nor ahead.

[Comment]

An enlargement of a line from the Mental Elucidation. Any idea why Wu switches from 彼 (that, over there) to 人 (man, other person)?

Cheers!
Dave
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Louis Swaim » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:44 am

Greetings Dave,

Well done. As for the use of 彼, in Classical Chinese this sometimes served as a third person pronoun meaning "the other, that one, those guys."

A well-known example from the Sunzi: 知彼知己,百戰不殆;不知彼而知己,一勝一負;不知彼,不知己,每戰必敗. Ames' translation is, "He who knows the enemy and himself will never in a hundred battles be at risk; he who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win and sometimes lose; he who knows neither the enemy nor himself will be at risk in every battle. (Roger Ames, Sun-tzu: The Art of Warfare, p. 110 / 113.)

By the way, and not to belabor the point -- did you happen to read my response to Audi above? I think the commentaries I cite from Yang Chengfu's Shiyongfa and Chen Weiming's Taijiquan Shu both lend support to my interpretation of the Wu Yuxiang line, 尚氣者無力,養氣者純剛. The two phrases in the line are set up as contrasting propositions. One is about something to avoid, the other is what one should do. Placing the emphasis on qi according to Wu's argument, interferes with the natural nurturing that is desired. Both the Shiyongfa commentator and Chen Weiming are talking about exactly that antithetical proposition.

If you also take a look at Paul Brennan's translation of the Mental Elucidation line, 全身意在精神不在氣在氣則滯有氣者無力無氣者純剛, you'll see it aligns with my interpretation as well. His translation is somewhat freer than mine, but I think it captures the meaning very clearly: "Throughout the body, the mind should be on the spirit rather than on the energy, for if you are fixated on the energy, your movement will become sluggish. Whenever the mind is on the energy, there will be no power, whereas if you ignore the energy and let it take care of itself, there will be pure strength." The commentary beneath that is also worth reading. http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... hiyong-fa/

That's not to say there are not other interpretations. I respect you and your efforts!

Take care,
Louis
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby yslim » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:16 am

[quote="Phocion"]Hi Louis and Uni. Thanks for the replies. There is much to think about here.


"As a preliminary, I note the points in which we are in agreement. I agree that using strength against strength is proscribed in taiji, and I agree that nurturing qi is good. The question unresolved in my mind is whether being "without strength" (無力) is good or bad."

HI DAVE

(無力) I BELIVE HE DIDN'T MEANS IT TO BE "WITHOUT STRENGTH". WU'S SKILL IS SO HIGHT THAT WHEN HE USE HIS STRENGTH SO EFFORTLESS THAT COULD PRODUCED A SENSATION AS IF HE HAVE "USE NO STRENGTH" AT ALL, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FEEL HOW IT EFFECTED YOU. HE JUST KNOW AND YOU DON'T. THTA IS "HE KNOW YOU BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HIM". HE USES JUST ENOUGH STRENGTH ( NO STRENGTH ALSO MEAN "NO[EXCESS] STRENGTH". THIS IS "NO RESISTING AND NO DISCONNECTING" ) TO REACH ON THE CONTACT POINT TO TAP IN YOUR STRENGTH ,AND HE CAN BORROW IT WHEN HE WNTS TO. WITH THAT HE CAN "LISTENING " INTO YOUR CENTER AND KNOW YOUR FUTURE PLAN. BECAUSE OF THIS, WHEN AND IF YOU MAKE A MOVE HE " ARRIVE /TAO " FIRST. BECAUSE HE ALREADY HAS HIS "SPY" PLANED THERE IN YOUR CENTER. THE STRENGTH HE USED WAS JUST ENOUGH TO MATCHING YOUR FORCE. THERE IS 'NO +' AND 'NO -' AND ALWAYS MAINTAINING AT "0" FORCE. THE "O" IS MARKS BY THE STRING THAT HOLD UP YOUR 'CROWN POINT' AND THE NEEDLE THAT POINTING TO THE "0" IS YOUR SPINE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TAUGHT IN TAIJI TO "USE NO FORCE". TO GET TO "NO FORCE" STAGE ONES NEED TO HARMONIZED THE YIN YANG EQUALLY ROTATING/LOOPING/CHANGING IN THE CENTER/TAIJI/CONTACT/NEUTRAL POINT, WHEN THIS THREE ABLE TO LOOPING INTO ONE. IN THIS "ONENESS" COMES THE COMPLEMENTARY FORCE, THE" PURE GANG" FORCE THE TAIJI SO VALUED. IT HAVE A EFFORTLESS SENSATION WHEN AND IF IT APPEARS. I ACCUSED MY LOVEY "DON'T TRY TO HELP HELP!". BECAUSE I SWEAR THERE IS NO FORCE IN THAT MOMENT OF TIME AND SPACE, SO WHY SHE GOT THROWN OFF ! LUCY FOR ME THOSE MOMENT DIDN'T HAPPENED OFTEN. I ONLY DO TAIJI FOR HEALTH.

I HOPE THIS HELP

CIAO,
YSLIM
P.S. SORRY FOR USE THE LARGE PRINT. IT WAS EASIER FOR MY EYE.
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Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Louis Swaim » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:40 am

Dear Mr. Lim,

May I call you Slim? Your messages always make me smile (and sometimes crack me up!). I'm looking forward to someday meeting you in Monterey, and seeing your paintings of Point Lobos and other beautiful places in person.

Take care,
Louis
Louis Swaim
 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:01 am
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Phocion » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Hello all,

Louis: Thank you for your patient explanations and the links to those commentaries; I do read them. I know I am "resisting" your interpretation, although you clearly have authority (and perhaps common sense) on your side. The problem is that I just cannot get my head around it. The Classics and the Explanation are often grounded in experience, so perhaps I just haven't had the requisite experience to make sense of the line. When Wu says "One who values qi will not have strength," my response is: "Huh?" But when he says "If you follow the other then you will be lively, if you follow yourself then you will be sluggish," I say "Yeah! That I have felt."

As my form gets better, my push hands gets better. Perhaps my improving my push hands will someday improve my understanding of the Classics.

yslim: Thank you for the explanation. I urge you to continue to practice taijiquan for health, otherwise you will become too dangerous--for Lovey if not for others.

Cheers!
Dave
Phocion
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby yslim » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:50 am

Louis Swaim wrote:Dear Mr. Lim,

May I call you Slim? Your messages always make me smile (and sometimes crack me up!). I'm looking forward to someday meeting you in Monterey, and seeing your paintings of Point Lobos and other beautiful places in person.

Take care,
Louis


DEAR MR. SWAIM,

"May I call you Slim?"
YOU CAN CALL ME ANYTHING BUT "Sue".

"Your messages always make me smile(and sometime crack me up!)
I HAPPY TO HEAR YOU SAID THAT, BUT THAT WAS NOT MY INTEND, I WAS INTENDED 'MY MESSAGES ALWAYS CRACK YOU(PEOPLE) UP AND SOMETIME MAKE YOU (OTHER) SMILE. I NEED TO WORK ON IT....

"I'm looking forward to someday meeting you in Monterey...."
THE HONOR IS MINE ! OUR PHONE IS 831-373-5222 OR 831-601=6897 (CELL) WE TREAT YOU TO 'CHOPSTIX'.( TO EAT AND NOT THE PIANO)

I THANK YOU FOR ALL THOSE WONDERFUL LINKS WITH CHINESE IN TAIJI YOU ARE BRINGING US.

CIAO,
SLIM, IN LARGE PRINT
yslim
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:01 am
Location: Monterey,Ca. USA

Re: Explanation of Taijiquan/太極拳解

Postby Phocion » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:26 pm

Hello everyone,

Next lines:

精神能提得起,則無遲重之虞;粘依能跟得靈,方見落空之妙。
If the spirit can be raised, then there is no worry about being slow or heavy. If you can be sticky and listen, you can follow and be agile, and just there appears the wonder of emptiness.

The first sentence is also in the Mental Elucidation.

Cheers!
Dave
Phocion
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Oakland, CA

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