all tai chi enthusiasts welcome
JWalt wrote:My question is about Double Weightedness as it relates to feet and hands...Any comments?
I have been taught and I have only found one reference to this is writings, that the weighted leg is the opposite to the weighted arm. So, if the right leg is weighted, the left arm is weighted, and so forth.
my experience has made me curious about weighting top to bottom, where the entire right side (leg and arm) are weighted, as in ward off right where the expression is in the right arm and the weight is forward on the right leg.
I have found a significant energy flow supporting this "all-on-one-side" method, when I experiment with it. The entire feeling of the form changes when yin and yang each are seeking their own side of the body as opposed to when it is crossing through the middle.
JWalt wrote:My question is about Double Weightedness as it relates to feet and hands. I have been taught and I have only found one reference to this is writings, that the weighted leg is the opposite to the weighted arm. So, if the right leg is weighted, the left arm is wieghted, and so forth.
MY LARGE PRINT IS FOR MY EYE SIGHT NOT FOR SCREAMING.
IN TAIJI'S DOUBLE WEIGHTINESS IS MEANS THAT THE TWO POLARITIES POINT IS THE SAME, THIS GIVE THEM NO ATTRACTION TO CHASING EACH OTHER TO FALL IN LOVE AND FORM A ONENESS. THIS ONENESS STILL CONTAIN THE 2 POLARITIES BUT NOT OPPOSING TO EACH OTHER. THIS UNIFICATION CREATING A COMPLEMENTARY FORCE. IF YOU ARE IN DOUBLE WEIGHTED WITH YOUR OPPONENT (IF YOU ARE IN THE YANG POSITION TO MEET HIS YANG FORCE THAT IS COMING TOWARD YOU ) IN MARTIAL APPLICATION THAT MEANS YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO CHANGING WITH A CHANGE AT THE TAIJI POINT AS IT SHOULD AT ANY GIVING "MOMENT-OF-NOW". IF YOU ARE IN "DOUBLE WEIGHTED" THAT WILL PUT YOU "BEHIND THE 8 BALL". WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE WEIGHT, THE TAIJI CLASSIC INDICATED THE LOWER HALF OF THE BODY SHOULD BE HEAVY AND THE UPPER BODY SHOULD BE LIGHT. I THINK IT IS THE WORK OF THE EARTH GRAVITY PULL. SO THE GRAVITY SHOULD BE YOUR ALLIES. SURRENDER YOUR ARM'S "WEIGHT" TO THE GRAVITY THROUGH THE 中定/ NEUTRAL. OTHERWISE YOUR OPPONENT WILL FIND YOU ARE 'TOP HEAVY' AND THAT IS BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH. HOWEVER YOUR ARMS COULD HAVE YIN/YANG ENERGIES. IF YOUR RIGHT LEG IS WEIGHTED, YOUR RIGHT ARM COULD CIRCULATING THE ENERGY IN THE "YIN MUSCLE " SIDE OF THE RIGHT ARM (THE SIDE THAT HAVE THE LESS SUN TAN) AS A PRIMARY FORCE WHILE USE THE "YANG MUSCLE" OF THE RIGHT ARM ( THE SIDE THAT HAVE THE MOST SUN TAN) TO CIRCULATING THE ENERGY AS THE SUPPORTING FORCE, TOGETHER THEY ARE ONE ARM WITH A CIRCULATING YIN PRIMARY FORCE BUT HAVE THE YANG WITHIN THE YIN. YOU MUST REMEMBER THE DISCRETION OF THIS YIN OR YANG CHANGING IS NOT UP TO YOU BUT YOUR OPPONENT AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE. BECAUSE THE "MOMENT OF HERE AND NOW" IS TAIJI. THE TAIJI IS THE YIN/YANG CHANGING WITHIN THE NEUTRAL POINT IN THE "POWER-OF-NOW". TO MEET YOUR OPPONENT'S YANG FORCE YOU MUCH HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE OF THE TIME FOR THE YI/YANG CHANGE AND THE SPACE/THE MIDDLE GROUND/中, FOR THE YIN/YANG TO CHANGE.So, the yang energy crosses through the body from the right leg root to the left arm expression. And as the body moves through the form, yin and yang alternates from leg to leg, and from arm to arm, assisted by the waist, but always seeking to be opposed and balanced.
IN ORDER FOR THE "ENERGY" TO "CROSSES" THE BODY YOU MUST HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE WHERE IS THE YIN SIDE AND THE YANG SIDE BODY PART IN YOUR BODY, YOUR ARMS, AND YOUR LEGS. IF NOT THEN YOU CAN NOT CROSS OVER BECAUSE THERE IS A "FIGURE 8" LOCATE IN THE WAIST AREA. ONE NEED TO "LOOP" THROUGH THIS FIGURE 8 NOT BY STRAIGHT THROUGH.THAT THE YIN FORCE HAVING THE YANG WITHIN ,AND THE YANG FORCE HAVING THE YIN WITHIN IT, THAT SIMULTANEOUSLY LOOPING CROSS-OVER THIS TWO CIRCLE (THE UPPER BODY AND THE LOWER BODY CIRCLE) THAT FORMING THE "FIGURE 8". SO IT IS NOT A LEG TO LEG AND FROM ARM TO ARM. IF THAT IS YOUR CASE THEN YOUR UPPER BODY IS NOT LOOPING TO CONNECTING WITH THE LOWER BODY. THIS MEAN THE "CHI IS NOT GOING THROUGH " TO CONNECT YOU NORTH AND SOUTH POLARITY POLES.But my experience has made me curious about weighting top to bottom, where the entire right side (leg and arm) are weighted, as in ward off right where the expression is in the right arm and the weight is forward on the right leg. Here, the yang energy travels directly upward from the root to the flower, rather then up from the rear leg, along the spine and out the branch (arm). If the weight should be on the left leg (in the rear) then the form hardly moves forward at all, remaining rooted to the rear leg, and then isn't that roll-back instead of ward off. I have found a significant energy flow supporting this "all-on-one-side" method,
"IF YOU HAVE FOUND A SIGNIFICANT ENERGY FLOW SUPPORTING THS "ALL-0N-ONE-SIDE" METHOD", THAT WILL BE A "NO BRAINER" FOR YOUR OPPONENT TO BORROW ALL THAT SIGNIFICANT ENERGY YOU HAVE FOUND. YOUR OPPONENT LOVE YOU FOR IT.when I experiment with it. The entire feeling of the form changes when yin and yang each are seeking their own side of the body as opposed to when it is crossing through the middle.
"IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ENERGY THEN I'M SORRY TO INFORM YOU, IN TAIJI THE YI IS THE ONLY ONE CAN LEAD THE CHI/ENERGY. WHEN THE YI OR THE AWARENESS GIVES COMMAND TO CIRCULATING THE ENERGY INTO THE YIN SIDE THAT BECOME THE YIN-PRIMARY-ENERGY. WHEN THE ENERGY IN THE YANG SIDE THAT IS CALL THE YANG-PRIMARY-ENERGY. ONE NEED TO TRAIN THE YI TO COMMAND THROUGH THE SENSE OF "FEELING" TO BEING. THE BEING NEED TO BE THERE IN THE MOMENT. IF YOU JUST LET THE " YIN AND YANG EACH ARE SEEKING THEIR OWN SIDE…", THEN WHERE IS YOUR MIND/YI, THE COMMANDER? ALL INDIANS AND NO CHIEF IS NOT A BEST WAY TO GO INTO A BATTLE EVEN IF IT IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE. TAIJI IS TO USING THE KNOWING TO DO THE "BATTLE OF THE YI". SORRY ABOUT THAT. BUT THEN AGAIN I MIGHT HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR POINT.respectfully, JWaltAny comments?
When maintaining ‘neutral’ we should be able to switch from pushing to pulling or pulling to pushing instantly since we maintain the yin-neutral-yang at the point of contact and can emphasize either yin or yang instantly depending on the condition at the point of contact (both yin and yang – empty and full – are present at the point of contact when the neutral at the point of contact is maintained).
Also, from an ILC perspective, we should maintain our yin yang balance (energy in six directions; ILC’s ‘fullness’) so that the partner/opponent cannot use our energy against us when we “begin to issue and reveal yourself.”
Audi wrote:To do something well, you must separate empty and full
One unchanging principle is that you want to know your opponent, but you do not want your opponent to know you. Another principle is that energy moves in cycles of full and empty, and so there is no one place in the cycle that is inherently good or bad. Where you need to be in the empty-full cycle depends on the situation. Therefore, you want neither to oppose the cycle by making it try to go in opposite directions at the same time nor be in a place where you cannot make it cycle in any direction at all. Either is being double weighted.
One last principle is that empty and full, like Yin and Yang, are always relative. They are relative both to each other and to the Taiji that is at issue. You can never point to an arm, for instance, and say that that arm is full, unless it is clear what it is full of and what it is being compared with.
I also want to mention that I am enjoying your informative posts, and I hope that you also get something from mine.
I think that your post is quite good, and that it matches my understanding of Taijiquan very well. Of course, my additional study of ILiqChuan has somewhat colored my perspectives, but since this is a TJQ forum they are somewhat irrelevant. Still, I think that it can be interesting to discuss different perspectives from arts that have similar approaches, just as it is sometimes interesting to discuss Chen or Wu (etc.) styles on a Yang style forum.
Dan wrote:Audi wrote:To do something well, you must separate empty and full
I know that this is often how TJQ practitioners express this concept, but ILC (as yslim has tried to point out in other posts) would not because, for there to be Taiji, yin and yang must be united, not separated.
To clearly distinguish yin and yang in ILC, you need to clearly understand the meeting place where yin and yang touch in the Taiji diagram (as well as in your own body and in the interaction with a partner/opponent), without ‘separating’ them.
In attacking like releasing an arrow, you can still issue in an arc. The arc would maintain the cycling of yin and yang and, if the arc is for a large enough circle, it could appear to be straight (like the sphere of the Earth can appear to be flat due to its great size).
Also, TJQ like ILC maintains this circle which maintains the cycle of yin and yang by keeping us from completely straitening our limbs (maintaining some yin in the extended, or yang, limb). Since there is both yin and yang present, we are not ‘double weighted’ and do not get ‘stuck’, and can continue the cycle between yin and yang, yang and yin.
We have yin muscles (responsible for flexion) and yang muscles (responsible for extension) and their corresponding surfaces of the body. Yet the body is a whole (forming a complete human body), so there are dividing lines in the surfaces and interiors of the human body where yin touches yang.
Try this as an example of distinguishing the yin from the yang in a partner’s arm. Hold their wrist in your hand and try to affect their spine by pushing through the structure of their arm. If your energy travels primarily through the inside (yin) of their arm it will be very easy, if they remain reasonably relaxed and sensitive, for them to bend their elbow and prevent the energy from reaching their spine...
This result is because the nature of yin surfaces is different than those of yang surfaces.
If you can be precise about the dividing line between the yin and the yang, then you will have more precise control of yourself and your partner/opponent. When you cross that line, then you know that you can do certain actions where those actions would be less likely to succeed if the line was not crossed.
Audi wrote:My guess is that we are probably in fundamental agreement about most of what we are discussing, but use the terminology differently. I can guess at some of ILC's teaching methods and do not oppose them on their own ground and can also presume that they could enlarge your TJQ practice. I might also guess that my TJQ and your ILC have actual practice differences and different emphasis that make it unnecessary and unfruitful to expect them to agree in all things. Since I think we are trying to talk about a fairly deep level of theory and philosophy, I am going to be a little bit picky about how I view these metaphors from my perspective.
...I would say that for us Taji is a one of two. If the two are united as one, then it is no longer two, and we no longer have Taiji. I can imagine, however, that ILC uses this terminology in a different way... in TJQ you must observe not only the line that separates Yin from Yang, but also the line that encircles them as one. I used to be a proponent of the word "distinguish," but now think that we need a word that covers both mental and physical processes, either or both of which may be important in any given situation. For the moment, I have settled on "divide" as a more neutral term for what you need to do to full and empty.
If I understand you properly, this would be analogous to when we generally talk about sinking in the chest and plucking up the back to stick Qi to the spine, but do not discuss the reverse. Even though we talk about this, we acknowledge exceptions.
If you mean, for instance, that I should pull when you are full and push when you are empty, then I guess I agree, but I do not know of any special doctrine for this. It is simply amount of developing skill in Listening and Understanding Energy.
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