Many different styles of yang tai chi

Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby Bob Ashmore » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:49 pm

Fred,
There are many ways to neutralize a forward pluck, my personal favorite is to sink and simply negate the energy.
It's fast, it's pretty easy and at the same time it completely offsets the opponent, leaving him in a very disadvantageous position.
You could also follow the pluck, step into the opponent, and give him a bump to take him off his root.
We could go on for days with "what if" but I think you know that.

One of my favorite analogies for Tai Chi Chuan is "be like a water wave, ebb and flow".
The only constant it TCC is change.

Bob
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby jacob28 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:53 am

talking about the different styles is the fu family conected to the yang family the tai chi looks close to each other.does any body tell me the lineage thankyou
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby Audi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:42 pm

Hi Jacob,

From what I understand, the Fu family are relatives of the Yang family. Fu Zhong Wen was Yang Chengfu's nephew, and lived and/or traveled with him for a number of years. Both families look to Yang Chengfu as the standard, but seem to have developed some minor differences in practice from each other.

Take care,
Audi
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby T » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:52 pm

Fu Zhongwen married into the Yang family
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby Audi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:21 pm

Thank you. I stand corrected, or perhaps what I remember reading was translated poorly.

Fu Sheng Yuan's site says:

Fu Zhongwen (1903-1994) was a respected Tai Chi Chuan teacher and author. From an early age, he had been a disciple of Yang Ch'eng-fu, and later a family member as he married Zou Kuei Cheng, the great-granddaughter of Yang Chien Hou.


"Yang Chien Hou" is also spelled "Yang Jian Hou or Jianhou." He was Yang Chengfu's father.
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby jacob28 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:49 am

Just had a Q.A i have asked this to many people but no one can tell me about it .Hopeing some one on this site can . i have seen many pictures of yang zhenduo with fu zhongwen and fu shengyuan in the 1950's and the 60's i have heard that the fu family was teaching yangzhenduo

thankyou
Last edited by jacob28 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby ruben » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:37 pm

Hi Jacob.
Grandmaster Yang Zhenduo was born in 1926, so in the 1950´s he was about 30 years old. I don´t think at his age, was learning from another family.
From Yang family history, GM Yang Zhenduo learnt Taijiquan from his father, at his early years and from his elder brother, Yang Shou Zhong, when GM Yang Chengfu passed away. In the 1960´s, he already was a consummate teacher.
I don´t know Fu´s Family version.
Take care,

Rubén
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby Louis Swaim » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:50 pm

Greetings,

Yes, I believe Ruben's account is accurate. Yang Zhenduo was ten at the time of his father's passing, but even as a young child he had already been a good student of his father's. He was said to be very perceptive and adept at absorbing things (耳濡目染) at an early age. By 1937 when the anti-Japanese war broke out, the family moved back to Yongnian. Yang Shouzhong remained in the south in Guangzhou. Accounts I have read say that Yang's mother was very influential in urging her sons to practice together to preserve the art. Yang Zhenduo writes in the foreword to his book that ". . . I had the opportunity to learn taijiquan from my father Yang Chengfu and elder brothers Yang Zhenming [Shouzhong] and Yang Zhenji in my youth." You can get some idea of the conditions in the country and some additional family background in this translation I did some years back of Yang Zhenji's biography in his own book: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=468

Yang Zhenduo evidently studied to be an accountant in school and worked for a mining company in Shanxi beginning in the fifties. He began teaching taijiquan from that point forward.

Take care,
Louis
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby jacob28 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:13 am

i have read that as well but wasent his older brother only nineteen years of age
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby Vic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:47 pm

Hi,

What a great board! Very informative and interesting. Hope no one minds if I give an opinion or three on this thread topic. Not being a member of any particular lineage or school, but rather someone who has studied and practiced several 'styles' of Tai Chi, my somewhat shallow understanding of the matter is that the modern styles like the 24 simplified are combinations of styles of Tai Chi, other Chinese Goushou, personal insight, and 'political' input from Goverment authorities. Within the world of Yang family Tai Chi Chaun, there are many variations, due to people learning from older generations and carrying these forward on their own, as well as some of the other factors mentioned regarding the 24 Simplified. In the end, each of us must decide for ourselves what real Tai Chi Chuan consists of, ideally with the guidance of excellent Masters like Mr. Yang Jun, or at least through constant and honest examination of a particular practice. To me, all styles of true Tai Chi share a commonality of Basic Principles expressed through the Shen Fa: the fine details of course become very different depending on the focus of the style or frame. This was historically true even within one particular Style or System: looking at the changes in the apparent Shen Fa between a slow 'foundational' form and a fast 'usage' form, this might make sense.
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby T » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Audi wrote:Thank you. I stand corrected, or perhaps what I remember reading was translated poorly.

Fu Sheng Yuan's site says:

Fu Zhongwen (1903-1994) was a respected Tai Chi Chuan teacher and author. From an early age, he had been a disciple of Yang Ch'eng-fu, and later a family member as he married Zou Kuei Cheng, the great-granddaughter of Yang Chien Hou.


"Yang Chien Hou" is also spelled "Yang Jian Hou or Jianhou." He was Yang Chengfu's father.


And Yang Luchan was his Grandfather and Yang Banhou' was his uncle :D

Fu Zhongwen did train with Yang Chengfu prior to becoming a member of the Yang family and he was highly skilled. Marrying into the Yang family and becoming Yang Chengfu's son-in-law came after he had already been training with Yang Chengfu.
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby wobblyboy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:14 pm

Robert Chuckrow has a good analysis of the differences in the traditional and Cheng Man-ch’ing forms. He discusses the forward lean in the article Google Cheng Man-ch’ing’s Short Form and The Yang-Style Long Form
Regards, Wobblyboy
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby mls_72 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:46 pm

I made this a while back to talk about the variations of Yang Taijiquan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CJ1eKxx_04
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby aidren » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:29 pm

mls_72 wrote:I made this a while back to talk about the variations of Yang Taijiquan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CJ1eKxx_04


Thank you for the compilation Matt. Very good and informative. It's nice to see all the variations strung together. If you have the time, could you elaborate a little on what you see as the differences in the "turning' and 'starting, following and finishing' of the variations you were mentioning this in?

Aidren
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Re: Many different styles of yang tai chi

Postby mls_72 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:47 pm

Aidren,

Well, I was going off on what my sifu at the time was saying 20 years ago, but I found this article which has a better description of Taijiquan postures have 4 key attributes: “begin”, “develop”, “express”, and “finish”, regardless of style.

From website:
http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... yle-taiji/

節序圖說明
EXPLANATION OF THE CYCLE-OF-FOUR DIAGRAMS

武式太極拳的所有動作都是按起、承、開、合的節序來編排的。以四個動作結為一個起、承、開、合的節序。如第二式“左懶扎衣”的四動,也就是節序圖中的四圖,圖1是“起”,圖2是“承”,圖3是“開”,圖4是“合”,結為一個節序。整個拳套都是一個個節序銜接編排而成的。在一個個節序之間,雖有稍頓的現象,但要保持勁斷意不斷,內部仍要綿綿不斷地銜接起來,所以在練習時不可因節序而中斷。
一個節序大都是由一個拳式構成的,如上面所舉的“左懶扎衣”有四動,成一個節序。但也有兩個,甚至四或五個拳式結成一個節序,例如拳套中的第四式“單鞭”和第五式“提手上勢”,兩式合併在一起編為四動,結為一個節序。
All the movements in Wu Yuxiang Style Taiji Boxing are arranged according to the “cycle of four” – begin, develop, express, and finish – four movements making one cycle of four. In the case of the four movements of TUCK IN THE ROBE – LEFT, which follow in the drawings below, Drawing 1 is “begin”, Drawing 2 is “develop”, Drawing 3 is “express”, and Drawing 4 is “finish”, making one cycle of four.
The whole solo set is made by linking up the cycles of four. Within each cycle of four, although there appear to be slight pauses, the principle of the power finishing but the intention continuing should be maintained, internally connecting the movements together without a break, so that when practicing, a cycle of four must not be caused to have an interrupted flow.
For the most part, one posture makes one cycle of four, as in the case of the four movements of TUCK IN THE ROBE – LEFT, but sometimes two postures, or even four or five, make a cycle of four, as in the case of SINGLE WHIP and RAISE THE HAND, two postures which when joined together make four movements, making one cycle of four.


Hope this helps.

Matt
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