Hi Bob, Jerry,
thanks Jerry, I recall the discussion. Actually, the relation this has to Audi's post regards the use of specific terms for particular movements in the form. The question was whether what individuals actually did in the form "conformed" to the Chinese translations.
Bob, I agree that translation is not a critical issue. There are and have been too many variations and inconsistencies for it to be very important. I.e., regardless of the written translation, some have gotten "it" right and others not.
However, translations can reveal subtle differences in how a movement is perceived by its originator. Of course, if one is taught in Chinese, there's little problem. Thirty and more years ago, there were few instructors of tcc --I'm aware of in the Northeast-- who were also fluent in English enough to translate directly from Chinese. Essentially, most of the students, then, learned at best in a kind of monosyllabic pidgin.
Nowadays, though, we have many, many English translations. Audi asked about consistency within Yang style. Imho, there is not; but this is partly a result of the translations from Chinese to English, and not simply a matter of different techniques/movements.
What I was trying, clumsily, to get at was an attempt to make some of these terms "consistent" in my own practice. Btw, learning a form through remembering the names is far more traditional than trying to memorize them from reading. The "Songs" are really songs with mnemonic lyrics.
But, working backward, it would seem logical that, as Audi said, "Shang bu" and "Jin bu" can't both be "Step Forward," though both are found translated as such. So, I added the concept of "turn" or "revolve", and Jerry provided exactly what I wanted. Now, the question is to see how this works within the form.
I also think there must be different ways of describing a "retreat": i.e., the difference between "shifting" back, "stepping back," and "repulsing" (which, in some styles, requires a different 'step' in Repulse Monkey.
Anyway, I don't want to claim that this is helpful to anyone's practice, per se. I need to get out more.