Translation of member card text

Translation of member card text

Postby JensAmmermann » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:32 am

Hello everybody,

I´m searching for a translation of the chinese text on our new member cards.

Does anybody know it or can tell me where I can find it?

Thank you :)

Jens
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby Audi » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:54 pm

I am not in a position to look at the card. Could you upload a picture?
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby JensAmmermann » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:09 am

Hi Audi,

here it comes:

Image
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby Louis Swaim » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:39 pm

Greetings Jens,

Those are the first few lines of the Taijiquan Treatise:

Taiji, being born of wuji, is the mother of yin and yang. In movement it differentiates; in stillness it consoidates. It is without excess or insufficiency. Follow, bend, then extend.

There appear to be some variant characters in what you have, however.

Take care,
Louis
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby JensAmmermann » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:42 am

Thank you for your help, Louis!

Best wishes,
Jens
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby UniTaichi » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:18 pm

Louis Swaim wrote:Greetings Jens,

Those are the first few lines of the Taijiquan Treatise:

Taiji, being born of wuji, is the mother of yin and yang. In movement it differentiates; in stillness it consoidates. It is without excess or insufficiency. Follow, bend, then extend.

There appear to be some variant characters in what you have, however.

Take care,
Louis


Hi Louis,

I would like to bring up the above translation for all to review how it could be according to my reading and understanding.

The part that I like to bring up is '' Follow, bend, then extend ''

The way these words are written usually follows a pattern or format. The first few lines are translated using two of the chinese character, which translate as two description or (set of) words. Then the last lines breaks into 3 words/description. I feel that it should read as two as well. Therefore it is not ; follow, bend. (1st 2 characters) , extend( last 2 character) .

My translation is '' From bend, it emerged ''

It also gel with what I learned in issuing of energy(fajin) .

What do you guys/gals think ?

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby Louis Swaim » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:43 pm

Greetings UniTaichi,

As I mentioned, there are some variant characters in the card that jens posted. My translation was based on the received version of those first few lines of the Taijiquan Treatise. The last two characters (而生 bottom left) of the card appear to be wrong. Ordinarily they would read: 就伸, which is what I translate as "then extend."

The next-to-last characters in lines 4 and 5 (者) are also incorrect, and should be 則. Those lines ordinarily read: 動之則分、靜之則合.

Again, the lines in the scanned card are at odds with the versions I'm familiar with. I'd be interested to know why.

--Louis
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby UniTaichi » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:17 am

Hi Louis,

Yes, there are variants as I have noted. And the quote you wrote are well accepted in most if not all translation of the said phrase. The variants is what made me look at it in a new light.

As you have pointed out, 就伸, is to extend. 而生, is to emerged (from) .Two completely different take on the phrase.

The next-to-last characters in lines 4 and 5 (者) are also incorrect, and should be 則. Yes you are correct to point that out. But, this different does not alter the phrase/emphasis itself. That is ; motion/separate, stillness/consolidate . And don't forget the ''format'' of writing.

I have just review an explanation of the phrase(ordinarily) but the explanation does not expand on ''bend'' at all. It only expand on ''follow'' and ''extend'' . So what ''bend'' have to do with it is not explained. What I am trying to point out here is, if it is, follow,bend,extend, all 3 should be given same emphasis in the explanation.

Why is there two versions(so far) ? Maybe the scan version is the Original ?? 8)

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby Louis Swaim » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:27 pm

Hi UniTaichi,

That's interesting speculation that the scanned card reflects the "original," version, but frankly that strikes me as implausible. If it were the original, why is there seemingly no evidence of this so-called original version surviving elsewhere? Why is it that none of the major family traditions, Wu, Hao, Li, Yang, Xu Longhou, Chen Yanlin, Chen Weiming, Xu Zhi, Wu Tunan, Sun Lutang, Fu Zhongwen, etc., use those variant characters in their published versions of the Taijiquan Lun?

--Louis
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Re: Translation of member card text

Postby UniTaichi » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:31 am

Hi Louis,

If it were the original, why is there seemingly no evidence of this so-called original version surviving elsewhere?


It is just my speculation. However, it seem to have ''survive'' and made it to the card text. Was this card issued by Yang Family TJQ ? If it is, perhaps someone there can provide some explanation.

If there is an original, it is likely to be the one given to YLC by CFK. And I don't think anyone outside the Yang family have seen it. Perhaps we can compared it with the Wudang writing on their TJQ. :?: I will let you know when I get anything.

The problem with this and most other things is, once someone of authority put it down, the junior (especailly in MA) just leave it at that. IMO, only the Yangs member have the ''right'' to change or point out any mistake. Since it is just 1 or 2 words here and there, it is not a big issue. And after such a long time, 4-5 generation, is not the right time to said anything. ;)

Cheers,
UniTaichi
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