What are we working on?

What are we working on?

Postby Anderzander » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:29 pm

Hello everyone,

I was just wondering what we are all working on at the moment?

There is no need to write in much depth - but just a few words from everyone on roughly where they are at would be wonderful :-)

My practice is a bit all over the place at the moment. There were some very deep (inside) spots of tension that were unchangeable (mainly on one side) - now they are changing.

It's immensely positive as it is effectively changing the base material that I work with - though it has messed up my equilibrium and is drawing my Yi into the body and causing all the problems that go with that.

So my emphasis at the moment is on [italic]more[/italic] clearly separating substantial and insubstantial.

Emptiness everywhere - one side channeling the weight whilst the other becomes weightless and moves. This as a sole focus allows for my new release to be consolidated and monitored by an awareness of the symmetry in my body.

So I've gone back a fair way to be able to go further forward once I've worked through it.

Stephen
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Postby psalchemist » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:08 pm

Hello Anderzander, Stephen,

Interesting thought for a thread...Caught my fancy.

Press, I guess...

Would anyone have any thoughts to contribute, I wonder, on the press, Ji, energy?

Especially keening on the internal workings of it...the essence of press.

I remember there were discussions on it a while back mentioning that it was similar to "squeezing" as though squeezing a tube of toothpaste and a more recent mention that it is a combination of two energies....

I am wondering about the particulars of the energy itself...does anyone have any thoughts to share on this?

Thank you,
Psalchemist
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Postby Anderzander » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:28 pm

Can you give any more detail? how do you experience it? what are you working with to make your press? what are you wondering about?

I think the input on your experience would be interesting and also help any response to be relevant to you.

Stephen
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Postby psalchemist » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:42 pm

Thanks for responding Stephen.

I think it is similar to the problems I had at one point with "part the wild horses mane"...a feeling that I am generating no or little power from the action....And honestly I cannot say how that movement was improved, but it did fall into place somehow...so I can sense the difference now. And following suit, I can feel the same insidious barrier with press.

I would like to hear any input pertaining to the internal idiosyncracies of this energy...How to generate the energies propulsion in its minimal, seeming, orbits... I feel...spaceless??? to generate momentum somehow.

My question is quite vague, I realize....
I would appreciate any thoughts that come to your mind at the notion of "press".

Thanks,
Psalchemist
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:44 pm

Greetings All,

At the moment, I am trying to figure out more clearly what came to taiji from daoist sages. Earlier we discussed and I read a lot about (new) Confucianism's piece in taiji. Now I feel a little gap in my practice concerning the other side – Daoism's piece.


psalchemist,
As for JI, I am not a master so I'll just say what I feel may be interesting to analyze - have you ever heard about "one hand clap" koan? Did you ever think about JI performed by one hand?
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Postby psalchemist » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:53 pm

Hi Yuri,

Thanks for your reply.

I too would be very interested in hearing any thoughts on Taoism as pertaining to TaiChi art.

About press,
I must admit...this sounds even more difficult than the two hand practice I am attempting. I would have imagined that was only for masters of the art. But this is definitely interesting and what I was requesting in way of information.
A one hand press...the right arm you mean?
Is there any way you can elaborate on this concept?
Have you tried this yourself?
What is the difference with two hand press?
Why would a player use a one hand press rather than a two hand press.
If we do a one hand press...is there a "missing" empty left hand?

Image

Thank you,
Psalchemist


[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 06-01-2005).]

[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 06-01-2005).]
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">A one hand press...the right arm you mean?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The right/left is irrelevant.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Is there any way you can elaborate on this concept?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it wouldn't be interesting to think Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Have you tried this yourself?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, the first section contains this movement.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
What is the difference with two hand press?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two hand press has obvious physical manifestation.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Why would a player use a one hand press rather than a two hand press.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually two hand press is easier to do. I said about one hand press only intending to give you some food for the mind hoping that it'll help to look at JI from another side.

[quote]
If we do a one hand press...is there a "missing" empty left hand?
[quote]

It may do any coordinated movement.

Take care,
Yuri
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Postby psalchemist » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:52 pm

Hello Yuri,
PS: A one hand press...the right arm you mean?
YU:The right/left is irrelevant.
Yes...right Image
************************************
PS: Is there any way you can elaborate on this concept?
YU:Then it wouldn't be interesting to think
I will experiment with it and see what I can glean from it.
************************************
PS: Have you tried this yourself?
YU:Of course, the first section contains this movement.
I'm not sure I understand...I mean the single limb technique you are talking about...
************************************
PS: What is the difference with two hand press?
YU:Two hand press has obvious physical manifestation.
I am not sure I catch what you are saying...maybe it is my poor question...
It seems to me that both methods have physical manifestation.
Can I assume that for the average player, that this one hand method would be less effective, or perhaps have less potential than a two handed press? to be used only in a bind where one does not have the use of both hands? Or does it make no difference. Is the yin/propping/insubstantial hand position simply born of convenience? as back up?
*************************************
PS:Why would a player use a one hand press rather than a two hand press.
YU:Actually two hand press is easier to do. I said about one hand press only intending to give you some food for the mind hoping that it'll help to look at JI from another side.
Thank you~and I shall ponder it, well, I guess I am pondering it, aloud. Image
**************************************
PS: If we do a one hand press...is there a "missing" empty left hand? YU:It may do any coordinated movement.
Sorry...I did not understand your reply...
**************************************
Thank you for the food for thought.
Psalchemist



[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 06-01-2005).]
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
PS: What is the difference with two hand press?
YU:Two hand press has obvious physical manifestation.
I am not sure I catch what you are saying...maybe it is my poor question...
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Two hands can overtly/obviosly squeeze, press each other, one hand cannot (overtly) Image


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
PS: If we do a one hand press...is there a "missing" empty left hand? YU:It may do any coordinated movement.
Sorry...I did not understand your reply...
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for my English, I was hurrying. The other hand (not perfoming JI) may do any movement in connection with the main action (i.e. not separatly).




[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 06-02-2005).]
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Postby psalchemist » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:01 am

Greetings Yuri,

Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate your efforts.

I could ask another question, but I do not wish to be a pester....overtly Image LOL.

Best wishes,
Psalchemist.
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psalchemist:
<B>Greetings Yuri,

Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate your efforts.

I could ask another question, but I do not wish to be a pester....overtly Image LOL.

Best wishes,
Psalchemist.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just wonted to remind that physical action of any of 13 shi ("postures") or in other words JINs have something behind its physical principle of the movement.

Usually we go through these stages:

1) First we study physical movement.

2) Then we try to realize the proper physical mechanics of this movement.

3) Then we try to realize the internal principle (LI) and ""hardwire" this principle into particular movement.

If you have problems with (2) seek the solution in (3)

Back to JI. Let's look at "squeezing" aspect of this jin. When you perform "Brush knee twist step", the intent and internal movement in the beginning of the action go forward, the upper hand pushes. Then, assume, you suddenly need to retreat. If you stop and then begin retreating it's not taiji – in taiji we don't interrupt the movement "mian mian bu duan" – "continuously without breaking". So in order to change our movement's direction we send the intent backward while still moving forward. Here is where slight internal squeezing arises (in the body and particularly in the pushing hand).

Take care,
Yuri
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Postby Anderzander » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:05 am

Yuri

what are you working on at the moment?

any one else :-)
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Postby Yuri Snisarenko » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anderzander:
[B]Yuri

what are you working on at the moment?
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The concrete answer is "xu ling ding jin", I am trying to minimize any swinging as possible remaining relaxed at the same time.
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Postby psalchemist » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:49 pm

Hello Yuri,

Thanks for indulging my thirst for knowledge of JI Jin. You have helped to hone my understanding somewhat.

********************************
You wrote:
Usually we go through these stages:
1) First we study physical movement.
2) Then we try to realize the proper physical mechanics of this movement.
3) Then we try to realize the internal principle (LI) and ""hardwire" this principle into particular movement.
If you have problems with (2) seek the solution in (3)
****************
I can relate to this process....I imagine myself revolving mostly in the physical mechanics(2) and now often reaching for understanding through the internal principle(3). So in summary, at present, I seem to be "working on" mechanics of movement through exploration of internal principle. Thanks for helping me to better articulate my vague intimations of what I was practicing presently.

********************************
You explained also:
Back to JI. Let's look at "squeezing" aspect of this jin. When you perform "Brush knee twist step", the intent and internal movement in the beginning of the action go forward, the upper hand pushes. Then, assume, you suddenly need to retreat. If you stop and then begin retreating it's not taiji - in taiji we don't interrupt the movement "mian mian bu duan" - "continuously without breaking". So in order to change our movement's direction we send the intent backward while still moving forward. Here is where slight internal squeezing arises (in the body and particularly in the pushing hand).

******************
Ah...this is indeed helpfull and exactly what I was seeking with my original questioning, I believe. I shall ponder this deeply in its application sense. Also I find that rumination of these energies in daily psychological interactions assist in comprehension of TaiChi theories, and vice~versa...so I am sure I shall find opportunity to practice and explore these entities as well.

*********************************

Thanks very much Yuri.

Best wishes,
Psalchemist.



[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 06-02-2005).]
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Postby The Wandering Brit » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:04 am

I am currently working on what my teacher likes to call 'Joined up writing'...focussing on the body and the mind moving as one, trying to ensure that when one part moves, all parts move, including the Yi.

Whether it's through paying more attention to this or the fact that I have been practising for a certain amount of time I am unsure, possibly both, but I have begun to get distinct feelings and sensations during certain parts of the form that were not there before.

I am trying not to pay them too much mind, as I am concerned that if I look inward at them then my Yi is going in the wrong direction, so my aim is to be view them as a natural progression from improving practise...is this a right approach to take do you think?
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