YangZD form VS YangCF form

[rakyat]

Hi,
I have seen some clips of Yang Zhenduo and Yang Jun doing the Yang form. Out of curiosity I compared it to those in Yang Chengfu's Essence and Applications of Taijiquan. There are differences.

For example, from "step back, ride tiger" to lotus sweep, YZD and Yang Jun do not spin around with left foot suspended, while pivoting on the right foot as described in the book. Rather they turn around 135 deg, with both feet pivoted on the ground first before swinging the left foot in an arc to complete the turn.

Is this a modification of Yang Chengfu's form by Yang Zhengduo?

Thanks.

[TaiChi_Student]

I also have a question that pertains to the book by Cheng Fu. How come there is no lifting of the arms in the opening posture?

Joe

[shugdenla]

rakyat,

The essence of the form is not that different. People's physiology influence the external representation of the form and no two people will do a form the same way. There will be differences.

The lifting of the arms (qishi) may perhaps be an internal thing. Instead of an explicit raising like the Beijing forms variation, I have seen some older forms just go into the next posture. Other raise hans with palm up as opposed to palms pointing downward!

[Bob Ashmore]

I have seen forms where you lean forward as you raise your arms, then lean back as you lower them to simulate pushing against, grabbing, then pulling back an opponent.
I have seen forms where you keep your fingertips pointed downward from your dangling wrist on Raise Hands, to practice using the backs of your hands in striking your opponents chest.
I have seen forms where you make a grabbing motion with your hands when your reach the top of Raise Hands, to simulate grabbing your opponents shoulders. The turn to the right at the end of this is to throw this opponent as you move into Left Ward Off.
I've seen forms where the arms circle outwards at the top of the Raise Hands, then back in and then down, to simulate opening an opponents arms as he grabs towards you, then circling around his wrists, grabbing and pulling him down towards you.
I have seen...
Well, dozens and dozens of forms with variations on a theme.
As long as the principles of TCC are in the movements, the actual form you practice doesn't really matter very much.
As much as a difference in physical body type, it is also a difference in martial preference. Some Masters want to emphasize one aspect of the movement, others want to emphasize a different aspect. It makes no difference in the end.
Yang Cheng Fu did his Strike Tiger a bit different than Yang Zhen Duo. So? The principles are the same.
That's what's important.
At least in my opinion. For what it's worth, there it is.

Bob

[Audi]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">For example, from "step back, ride tiger" to lotus sweep, YZD and Yang Jun do not spin around with left foot suspended, while pivoting on the right foot as described in the book. Rather they turn around 135 deg, with both feet pivoted on the ground first before swinging the left foot in an arc to complete the turn.</font>

In my view, the problem may be that it is difficult to describe the subtleties of movement unambiguously. I could apply both of the above descriptions to Yang Zhenduo's form. The way I would describe the movement is as follows:

Begin pivoting on the ball of the left foot; and then, when the position becomes awkard, pivot on the ball of the right foot. The two pivots may slightly overlap. When the right foot becomes set after 135 degrees of turning, swing the left foot around with the intent of setting the heel down at the end of the turn. As the motion of the left leg makes the positioning of the right foot awkward, resume pivoting on the ball of the right foot and then set the heel of the left foot down. (During this motion, you are spinning with the left leg "suspended" and while pivoting on the right foot.) As you transfer weight to the left foot, pivot on the heel of the left foot to place the toes in the same position as Single Whip. At the same time as the left heel pivot, the right foot continues to pivot on the ball, but may finish slightly afterwards, since it is timed according to the weight shift.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I also have a question that pertains to the book by Cheng Fu. How come there is no lifting of the arms in the opening posture?</font>

I vaguely recall one book that appears to leave out the Opening Form (Qi Shi). One explanation might be that the book does not show transitional postures. Since the Opening Form begins and ends with almost the same posture, a picture of the ending posture would look almost the same as the Preparation Form (Yubei Shi) and thus might be omitted.