Rocking set and stance training

[T]

Hello

How important do you feel the rocking set and stance training is to the form and Jin?

Also, I do not wish to be dishonest here; I was here before under a different user name that was apparently forced upon me by the email address I was using that is soon to be deleted. Also I could not find a way to change the user name so I had to reregister to change it. I was here as depdogg but I very much prefer T.

Thank You.

T




[This message has been edited by T (edited 02-25-2006).]

[shugdenla]

T,

What is the Chinese name of this rocking set? I have never heard of it in reference to Yang style of Chengfu/Zhenduo!

[T]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by shugdenla:
<B>T,

What is the Chinese name of this rocking set? I have never heard of it in reference to Yang style of Chengfu/Zhenduo!</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more I think about it, it may not be part of traditional Yang and now that I looked for the Chinese names they may be classified as a Qi Gong set.

I guess I am trying to find out of the forms that I practice what is traditional Yang. The problem is I have had 3 different teachers, the first I know is not traditional, and he was basically a Wushu guy that knew 24 and 48.

The second one that I had briefly is where this comes from and his lineage may have come from Yang Shouhou or Yang Binhou not Yang Chengfu, but that does not mean it is not part of traditional Yang.

I have no Chinese name for the Rocking set but I do have the 3 names of the forms

Gong Bi, An, Peng.

Basically it is similar to stance training (I have the Chinese name for this, Ji Bin Ba Shi). except you are moving your center and moving weight from one leg to another.

There was also a stepping set that was basically the a particular form repeated, Yun Shou, Xie Fei Shi, Pie Shen Chui, Cai Tui, and Lou Xi Yao Bu.

My third teacher that I have been with for many years, and the longest, does have a lineage to Yang Chengfu, but it comes from Tung Ying Chieh,

And I know that the long form that I do is traditional and I believe the first fast form is traditional and the second fast form comes from Sifu Tung, but I am not sure about the rest of the forms. I know at least 3 are traditional, but I am not sure which.

Short Broadsword form (Da Dow)
Long, fast, broadsword form (Da Dow)
2 different saber forms
a spear form and a staff form. Not to mention various Qi Gong exercises.

And I know that is a very long answer to your question, but I truly wish to find out.

But I would be happy with any answers you could give me.

Thank You
T

[tccstudent]

Tricky subject matter. IMHO, any forms that come from a senior Yang family member are a traditional form. There seems to be some controversy over which form, and who learned from who, but the important thing is that your traditional forms come from Yang family members. Also, keep in mind some of the disciples of the Yang masters have also put their own twists and turns on various forms and some have even created their own forms all together. Today, we have the Yang Zhen Ji branch, the Yang Zhen Duo branch, and the Yang Sau Chung branch which is being propagated by Yang Ma Lee as well as the Yang Sau Chung disciples. All of these branches are part of a bigger tree and some trees are different than others, but let us remember that in the end it's the principles behind the forms, not the forms themselves that count!

Since I practice only in the YSC branch I can only tell you what we have in our curriculum which was passed on from Yang Cheng Fu:

YCF long form
Staff form
3 broadsword (knife) forms
2 double-sided sword forms
Spear form
Tai Chi Chung Chuan (fast form)
2-person sparring set
Push hand exercises (dynamic push hands, walking, active and stationary step, da lu)
Power development exercises

Also, the government standard 24, 32, 48, 88, etc. forms (weapons and empty hand) are NOT traditional forms (in case you didn't know that). These forms are more geared towards competitions, which focus more on exaggerated movements, and high kicks as opposed to energy development and use.




[This message has been edited by tccstudent (edited 02-28-2006).]

[T]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tccstudent:
<B>
YCF long form
Staff form
3 broadsword (knife) forms
2 double-sided sword forms
Spear form
Tai Chi Chung Chuan (fast form)
2-person sparring set
Push hand exercises (dynamic push hands, walking, active and stationary step, da lu)
Power development exercises

Also, the government standard 24, 32, 48, 88, etc. forms (weapons and empty hand) are NOT traditional forms (in case you didn't know that).

[This message has been edited by tccstudent (edited 02-28-2006).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank You.

I forgot to add that we also have the 2-person sparring set and
Push hand exercises (dynamic push hands, walking, active and stationary step, da lu).
But we don't have the 3rd broadsword set, we have a second fast form but I know that is from Sifu Tung.

I am aware that 24, 32, 48. Forms (weapons and empty hand) are non-traditional government forms although I have not heard of the 88. But I am not surprised; I left the competition forms behind several years ago.

I was also not aware of that there was a Yang Sau Chung branch. And I like what you said about "any forms that come from a senior Yang family member are a traditional form". I was under the impression that traditional was only thought of as the Yang Chengfu branch these days. I am happy to hear it is not that restricted and that I was wrong.

Thank You for the clarification

T

[tccstudent]

This is just my opinion, and most likely others may disagree, but basically it's all good as long as the principles are being upheld in the form work. Since Tung/Dong studied with Yang Cheng Fu and Yang Sau Chung, it's no surprise that the Dong curriculum is very similiar to the Yang Sau Chung curriculum since they were there together. Also, keep in mind, a lot of people who supposedly learned from YCF actually learned from YSC, especially in the latter years. Tung certainly got the goods, you can tell by looking at the video clips on the chipellis.com site. Very martial intent in their form work.

[T]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tccstudent:
<B>This is just my opinion, and most likely others may disagree, but basically it's all good as long as the principles are being upheld in the form work. Since Tung/Dong studied with Yang Cheng Fu and Yang Sau Chung, it's no surprise that the Dong curriculum is very similiar to the Yang Sau Chung curriculum since they were there together. Also, keep in mind, a lot of people who supposedly learned from YCF actually learned from YSC, especially in the latter years. Tung certainly got the goods, you can tell by looking at the video clips on the chipellis.com site. Very martial intent in their form work.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[T]

tccstudent

Thank you so much for the information.

I was not aware of the chipellis.com site. I will have to let my Sifu know about it.

My Teacher was a student of Tung Ying-chieh I do not know my teachers entire Chinese name I only know Sifu Chu.

Thanks
T