Question about dvds differences ...

Question about dvds differences ...

Postby mdukuen » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:33 pm

I'm sorry for my english...

I want to know wich are main differences between Master Yang Zhenduo 3 dvds instructional set, and Master Yang Jun instructional dvd? Wich is the better one to help me learn the 103 form?

Thanks!
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Postby JerryKarin » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:48 pm

I have two sets of Yang Zhenduo videos, one from Taste of China and one that was produced in China on VCD. Both are great. I haven't got around to purchasing the newer ones that Yang Jun produced, but he told me one time that he was very pleased with how they came out, and I gather they are somewhat more modern in style and utilize multiple views etc. Maybe someone who has seen both can comment.
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Postby JerryKarin » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:50 pm

Bob?
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Postby Audi » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:13 pm

I only have Yang Zhenduo's "Taste of China" video, rather than any in the DVD format; however, I think one of the differences might be that Yang Jun's DVD offers an application demonstration for each posture, whereas Yang Zhenduo's video shows applications only to illustrate a few specific points. Yang Jun's video also tries to offer multiple views of individual postures, where necessary to demonstrate various points.

Another difference is that Yang Zhenduo's material is in Chinese, with a written English transcript (or perhaps subtitled in some versions); whereas Yang Jun's commentary is in English. This is perhaps the most important difference from the perspective of someone new to this form.

I should also add that in Yang Zhenduo's video, he does much of the demonstration; however, Yang Jun (at an earlier age) also does a significant amount of the demonstration, with Yang Zhenduo providing running commentary to emphasize various practice points.

All in all, I think either version would be fine, but would lean toward Yang Jun's version, since it tries to incorporate the same material in his grandfather's video, is more recent, and is in English. Yang Jun is also now teaching more actively than his grandfather, at least outside of China; and so you will more likely see him at a seminar or a class, than his grandfather.
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Postby mdukuen » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:43 pm

Hi. Thanks for the answer. Today i bought the Yang Zenduo DVD from Tai Chi Depot website (only the part I, movements 1-16), and in a few months when i has the sufficient money, i am going to buy the Yang Jun DVD from this website. Meanwhile i am going to study the first part of the 103 form using the Yang Zhenduo DVD. Thanks.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:13 pm

Both sets of the DVDs are pretty well made, with clear video and good angles for viewing what they show.
While I'm sure the YZD DVDs are excellent if you understand the Chinese being spoken by YZD, if, like me, you don't understand Chinese (Mandarin I believe) then you have to rely on the English translator.
Well...
While I'm greatful for the translator, don't get me wrong, the translations leave more than a little to be desired.
For instance, on the Saber DVD there is a point where YZD is showing something, it is quite clearly an extremely important point as he talks about it at some length, holding the saber, pointing at it, moving it around in various ways, going back and remaking the point at least twice, the translator remains totally silent throughout.
THEN, just as YZD is beginning to move on, the translator says, and I quote, "Do it this way, that will be good."
Leaving me to shout at my television, "WHAT WAY? What will be good?" every single time I see it.
This is only one example, this happens quite a lot.

On the other hand, Yang Jun speaks English throughout his DVD sets. All of them are excellent, clear, easy to understand and follow.
I have the Hand Form and Push Hands DVDs so far, and I have borrowed both Sword and Saber recently so I am familiar with those as well.
These are top notch DVD's, professionaly made, nice clear video and easy to understand and follow instructions.

The differences:
There are some minor points of difference in the form work. Yang Jun demonstrates the forms on both sets of DVD's and there are some clear, albeit minor, differences between them in the forms.
There is about twenty years in between them, so that's not too terribly surprising.
The largest difference I have seen is on Fair Lady Works Shuttles. I've noticed this as well in between the Saber DVD's, there is the same difference in execution of the form on the saber form that looks remarkably like Fair Lady (at this morment I am completely brain dead on the saber form name for some reason).
All of the differences are minor, very small changes in form presentation. I have no idea if this reflects differences in how Yang Jun does his form as compared to how YZD does his, or if it simply reflects the changes over about two decades to the form of Yang Jun.

Either way, IMPHO, you get quality DVD's for your money.

Hope this helps.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:25 pm

Oh, and while this is hardly important to the quality of the DVD's, or in the scheme of things in general...
It is really quite funny. So I'll share it for a "Ha-ha" moment.
I know it's a matter of translation and pronunciation and I probably am being gauche laughing at it, but I can't help it.
During the translation on the YZD Sword DVD, when they reache the forms Big and Little Dipper...
The translator always, always pronounces Dipper as...
Diaper.

I know, I have a twisted sense of humor, but you have to admit...
That is funny. ;-)
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Postby laopei » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

test
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Postby laopei » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:18 pm

mdunkuen:
With GrandMaster Yang Zhenduo we are in the presence of greatness. (like GrandMaster Ma Yuehliang, or Astor Piazzolla or Federico Fellini)
One camera only, black & white, 8 mm, silent..., it doesn't matter, learn from YZD -if you can- who has been practicing for close to 75 years (he began at 6 or 7?); and who developed during those years great skill (kung fu). 75 years of skill.
Let's not be fascinated by technology only, otherwise, why not buy "Tai chi in paradise", or Carradine's tape instead. It is not about how many angles or views one gets in the DVD (one still has to get the first "angle" and work on it).

Old Chinese proverb:
"I hear and i forget;
I see and I remember;
I do and I understand"

Master Yang Yun learned from YZD.
Even if YJ were a genius he has not surpased his grandfather skill yet. There are differences between them. Obvious differences. You must decide if "differences" are important.
The previous paragraph is not meant to start a debate.
It is written with respect and thankfullness to both of them who were my teachers. It is not really a matter of opinion. Anybody who has studied since 1990 with YZD knows/sees the difference.
In a future time Master YJ may surpase his grandfather skill and that will be a matter of great rejoicing for me and for the many who love and care for this beautiful treasure (Yang Family TCC).

For mdukuen:
Parece que:
...da lo mismo que si es cura, colchonero, rey de bastos, cara dura o polizon...
Tango "Cambalache". Enrique Santos Discepolo

Horacio Lopez
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Postby mdukuen » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:03 pm

Hi laopei, thanks for your opinion. And of course, i know the things you wrote was with all respect for this two greats masters.

If i could choose, i would buy both dvd's set, but for now i only can buy one (or 1/3) of them, and i did it!. So, now, i'm waiting, counting the days...

Thanks all and sorry for my english! I hope that all you can understand me.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:04 pm

In my opinion, Yang Juns tapes are going to be better for English speakers. Not because I believe Yang Juns skills are superior to his grandfathers, but because I do believe his skills are greater than mine.
Whose skill level is greater however is neither here nor there in the question of "which DVD should I buy?".
The test there is: "which DVD can I learn the most from?"
The answer is, for me, the one that is in English. Why? Because there are huge knowledge gaps in the DVD's made by Yang Zhen Duo for me. I don't understand Chinese and the translation leaves quite a lot to be desired. There are entire sections of that DVD where I am left to wonder if Yang Zhen Duo is talking about skills to practice, or showing things not to do. Without knowing which is correct and which is not, I am left in a vacuum of ignorance.
Since that is the case, then Master Yang Juns DVD is going to be superior for me. I am left in no doubt about which things are to be practiced and which things aren't.
That alone makes the DVD's made by Yang Jun invaluable to me.
That Master Yang Juns skills are equal to the task of demonstrating correct Yang style TCC posture is beyond question.
If, for some bizarre reason, anyone does have any questions along those lines, think about this: Who did Yang Zhen Duo choose to do the demonstrations on his DVD's when he made them? That would be...
Yang Jun.

Either DVD is going to teach anyone quite a lot. I have both, but the one that gets me the most correct answers to my questions is Yang Juns.
In my opinion if you are an English speaker you are going to get more that you will actually understand off the DVD recorded in English.
Certainly a better proposition than getting David Carridines set, anyway.

Bob
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