<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bob Ashmore:
I agree with you on just about everything you say, however I have to disagree that the moves are not internally the same. At the heart of them, they are very much the same.
The principles between them, with the exception of the introduction of the hip throw, are nearly if not totally identical.
In fact, doing them both, one right after the other, shows clearly how similar they are.
The Wu style hip throw was added, and I'm certain for the very reasons you state here, however it seems more like a slight change to an existing form to accentuate a slightly different application rather than something that was invented by the Wu's from whole cloth.
The movements into the forms are very much alike, the movements of the form are done mostly using the same internal energies. Only the addition of the hip throw during the movement seperates them. In fact, once you straighten up from the hip throw portion, the rest of the form is internally identical.
The sinking aspects of the form are the same, the energy is used in the same way after the throw. You can change from one to the other seamelessly with very little alteration.
All these things lead me to believe that while the forms are showing differing aspects of the same thing, they are still similar in most respects.
The name alone shows that their origins are similar. Beyond that Wu Chuan Yu learned from Yang Lu Chan and Yang Ban Hou and the two families forms, name by name, are very much alike in their principles throughout. Relatively minor external changes, based on slightly differing ideas of application and frame size, seperate the two styles forms at most points.
I will tend to agree but the main distinction is functional, as you may be implying! Yu and Wu Jianquan style are essentially the same, and as stated the shuaijiao background appeared to have initiated the lean associated with Wu style.
The lean is emphasis, like a dragon wrapping its tail around an object, with an apparent axis rotation.
[This message has been edited by shugdenla (edited 09-06-2007).]