<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Louis Swaim:
Re: ‘. . .have you read the mainland’s article re Li’s “Eyebrow Comments”? I’m just curious.’
Do you have a link or a lead as to where I could read that article in Chinese? My first reaction was that this didn’t strike a bell, but after some digging, I again stumbled upon David Chen’s partial translation of Li’s “eyebrow” comments. See below.
Re: ‘Master Ma Yueh Liang & Dr. Zee described in chapter 8 of their book on Wu's tcc some variance in terms between, e.g., Wu Tunan, Cheng Zheng Ming & Ma himself earlier, and Hsu Zhi Yi, etc., etc. In particular, I am interested in the names "Tiger & Leopard Springs to the Mountain"(Wu's)& "Carry Tiger, Return to Mountain" (Yang's).’
Ma and Zee state that the variant, “Leopard and Tiger Push the Mountain” (bao hu tui shan) was passed down by Wu Jianquan. I take that to mean that it was his innovation. I’m inclined to think that many of the variant names can be explained for exactly that reason—some masters put their own spin on form names to coincide with the personal imprint of their style. Jianquan’s form instructions, as recorded in Wu Gongzao’s 1935 book (“The Gold Book”), used the “Embrace Tiger, Return to Mountain” name, but states that it is “also called bao hu tui shan” (Leopard/Tiger push the Mountain). (Goldbook, p. 58) Some time back I posted some remarks about the “Embrace Tiger Return to Mountain” name, and its resemblance to a literary phrase, “Release Tiger, Return to Mountain”, which differs only in the first character. The thread of that discussion, if you’d like to read through, was here: http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000088.html
By the way, someone had mentioned a Li Yaxuan article (partial trans. by David Chen) in that thread, which critiqued the alleged misinterpretation of the form name by Zheng Manqing, but I took issue with that analysis for reasons you can assess for yourself.
One thing that supports the “Embrace Tiger, Return to Mountain” name as being well-established in the early Yang tradition is its appearance in the text said to be transmitted by Yang Banhou, “Quan ti da yong jue,” which is a remarkably intact (& compact) early inventory of Yang form names and applications. Wile translates the line, “The permutations of Cross Hands are infinite; Embrace Tiger Return to Mountain demonstrates Pull-down and Split.” (Touchstones, p. 47) I especially like the reference to the transformations of Cross Hands being limitless “shi zi shou fa bian bu jin.” I think Cross Hands was given greater prominence in the early Yang tradition than may be recognized more recently.
[This message has been edited by Louis Swaim (edited 01-03-2008).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, thank you for your explanation & view on those terms & the link to the previous discussion. It is most interesting. Definitely, I agree with you re the old terms. Material from the first two generations provides such a keen insight into the early practice.
I don't have a link to the original article. Rather, Master Chen Longxiang gave us the information directly. It took us some time (because of other commitments) to translate it. But right before submission, we had a call from Mr. Chen directing us to NOT publish it. It seems Mr. Yang Zhenji was very angry at Mr. Chen over the mainland article. He complained that their "bread & butter" was being harmed. Therefore, CLX asked us to NOT publish it.
Regarding David Chen's translation of a piece of the "Eyebrow Comments", either he deliberately changed the theme & tone of the original or he missed the point. The original theme goes to the very heart & meaning of tcc itself rather than merely opining on gesture terms; it is much, much more. The bottom line is quite easy to understand - either Li is correct or the book's author is correct. The assertions do not allow two such disparate views in tccland. For this very reason, in fact, the critique is highly educational - the idea of a senior Yang student(LYX) arguing with a junior student (CMC) should be very enlightening to we lesser students. But it is not to be - at least for the near future. Eventually, I am sure the information will come out. Heck, maybe we'll do it finally in some sort of way. It has to since it is too important to ignore, regardless of one's point of view or which side of the equation lies one's allegiance.
I've already said quite enough. Out of respect for Mr. CLX & the late Mr. YZJ, I need to leave it at this.
Thanks for the info on the discussion on the old terms. It is very interesting.
Another question - did you get a chance to visit the display of 'that' royal poet who wrote the sonnet on tcc after seeing Luchan in combat at the Zhang compound? His descendent relative lived or maybe still lives here. Sorry the name escapes me just now. A couple years ago the royal poet's material was returned to a museum in Shanghai - it had been in a museum here for several years. I believe there is a possibility that he wrote other descriptions that might be interesting & informative to read. The next time we visit Chen Weiming's grandson, I hope to ask him about it (since the grandfather was a noted scholar). Nothing ventured, nothing gained.