Tai Chi Palm Progress

[Taichikid]

Well i posted a while ago about my progress so far with tai chi palm, here is the lates video, watch how the brick dust forms, hehe you can see my intention...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HPWr7eQEE

plz tell me what you think

[JerryKarin]

One man's opinion: not worth it. You have tons of tiny bones and ligaments in your hand. Don't mess them up with parlor tricks. You only get issued one set of these. Someday you may want to play guitar with them. Plus this kind of thing can lead to concentrating on developing brute, localized force as opposed to whole body strength.

[Taichikid]

what do you think of this its an image, on tai chi physics I developed, About empty and full

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6261/taichiphysicsgk1.jpg


also here is another video of concrete...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs9fZyVt0xM

[shugdenla]

You seem to know the application of physics (concept) whereby your placement of the brick will definately assure that the brick is broken when hit! Try this double blind test.

Your present approach is as follows:

-----
---- -----
---- -----
---- ------


Change placement and see what happens as below:

----------
------- --------
------- ---------
------- ---------

If I am right and as you can see, the top brich will be far more difficult (if not impossible) to break because the outside brick form a bond (more compact) with the outer edges of the top brick (the one to be broken). Middle is far more compact (breaking area). Call it part of the trickery of breaking but it is often used.

If you can consistently break the brick(s) with the 2nd setup, then you are king of the Iron Palm! All you do is just touch someone and they fall over!

p.s. I tried to set up with the drawing but somehow the top of both shifted when submitted.
Anyway, With the second setup, if you move the outside bricks closer towards the centre, you will see that the top brick would be impossible to break!
HOpe this is clearer!

[This message has been edited by shugdenla (edited 01-11-2009).]

[This message has been edited by shugdenla (edited 01-11-2009).]

[This message has been edited by shugdenla (edited 01-11-2009).]

[yielding]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JerryKarin:
One man's opinion: not worth it. You have tons of tiny bones and ligaments in your hand. Don't mess them up with parlor tricks. You only get issued one set of these. Someday you may want to play guitar with them. Plus this kind of thing can lead to concentrating on developing brute, localized force as opposed to whole body strength. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur 100%. Since when do TCC people break bricks and boards? This is nonsense, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with tai chi training imho. In fact, it will only lead one AWAY from the sensitivity and awareness that is TCC.

[Ba-men]

Nice start but your technique is all wrong

[Ba-men]

You should start with the palm horizontal to your head and drop it on the platform. You should also be conditioning the ridge hand and the back of the hand in like fashion. Iyou should also be developing the fingertips

Next level is cotton palm i.e when your hands become heavy (you will know what I mean by this when you start to develop it.

[Ba-men]

To the un-initiated.....!

BaguaZhange and Xingiquan practitioners condition their hands in a similar fashion. If done correctly the dexterity of your hands will not diminish.

Yang she Taijiquan is a fighting art with serious da fa (i.e striking methods)

Tui shou with out da fa and you have nothing!

[Audi]

Greetings all,

I tend to agree with the posts that discourage brick breaking, for all of the warnings given; however, if this is what sustains your interest, then maybe it is best to stay with it and hope the enthusiasm spills over onto other things.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Yang she Taijiquan is a fighting art with serious da fa (i.e striking methods)</font>

I agree with this; however, I would say that the Association's Taijiquan does not emphasize striking methods and I believe this emphasis is deliberate. In my view, we emphasize the study and understanding of energy ("Jin"), which has no fixed shape or form.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Tui shou with out da fa and you have nothing!</font>

As far as I understand it, the Association views Tui Shou ("Push Hands") as a bridge between the solo form and free fighting. It is a continuum. At one end, the emphasis is not too dissimilar from the solo form; but at the other, the usage will be practically the same as with free fighting. If you are practicing Push Hands applications, you will often be dealing with applications that can do every bit of damage as the typical strike, or even more, if your knowledge is sufficient. Simulating such damage is, however, not the focus, but rather listening, understanding, control and neutralization skills.

Take care,
Audi

[Michael]

I have to agree with Jerry and most of what Audi said.

I practiced hard styles for years before Tai chi. I saw eight year olds break boards and bricks. It really has no real purpose other than to impress audiences. It's really nothing more than than developing a focus on a spot and not retreating from it. You "retreat" from it fall short of that spot you get hurt.

If one wants to condition one's hands there are far better ways of doing it. Some lines use buckets of materials in a denser and denser (smaller) materials, peas and gravel....getting to sand. But you use your finger tips not palms. Some beat their arms on trees and with iron bars to stimulate bone growth. You can do all this if you choose but it isn't going to increase your Tai chi abilities.

If your concern is defending yourself (not fighting), the best thing to do is learn what it feels like to get hit, then learn the principles so that you can avoid it if at all possible, but, you are going to get hit. That is a shock to many and then so much for the principles.

It's like weight lifting. You can choose to lift increasingly heavier weights and increase muscle mass or you can increase reps while using light weights and increase speed and flexible elastic strength.

It's about structure, proper structure and angles of attack. If it isn't right, it's going hurt you, maybe more than your opponent. Then callouses, heavier bones, and dead nerves won't help you much.[wink]


[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 02-01-2009).]

[mlot]

Breaking bricks and/or boards in any martial art ALWAYS reminds me of a quote from the movie "Karate Kid II":

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">(Walking through the Okinawa airport, Daniel and Miyagi find a poster advertising Sato's karate school. The poster shows Sato breaking a log with his bare hands)
Daniel: You think you could break a log like that?
Miyagi: Don't know. Never been attacked by a tree. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That said, I must admit I have used 1/4 and 1/2 inch diameter wooden dowel rods to simulate what it might be like to snap an elbow or break a bone.

[This message has been edited by mlot (edited 02-04-2009).]

[shugdenla]

Just a reminder that there is another art explicitely called Taiji Palm (Taiji Zhang) associated with Prof Zhang Guangde, formerly of Beijing University.