Yang Shen,
I have also had experience with grapplers, both friendly and unfriendly. No one outside the art seems to realise the extent to which TCC Tui Shou training can take you when it comes to handling this kind of thing.
A big strong guy grabs you and tries to pull you into him, you let him take the half of you he has the best grip on while "rooting" the other, as he reaches the end of his "pull" and is in that moment in between pulling you and then issuing against you, you simply "push" against his open gate and watch him fall harmlessly to the floor (I'm deliberately using the least destructive scenario here).
I can't tell you how many times I've done this to my brother (no, not the disciple, I have two) who is one of the largest, strongest men I know.
In "friendly" guy kind of shoving matches, this is all in jest but it's still quite fun to watch their expression as they tumble. In real martial situations, it's just a reaction to the situation you've been placed in.
But grapplers are a fact of life, Tui Shou is the best way to stay prepared for this. It's "wrestling" taken to it's pinnacle, if you think about it.
Taiji aplications
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by Yang Shen » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:07 pm
Wushuer,
That is interesting TCC being mostly a close range fighting system does indeed have many similarities to this type of wrestling. I have found getting in close is an advantage to striking systems and changing the angle of attack (facing liner attacks) yet with grapplers they seem to have a better grip on the inside fighting methods.
There are many claims and actual accomplishment of Tai Chi Chuan being effective for great balance yet when we become a balance (as soon as there is weight on one side the other side can become full to redirect the movement or attack as you say, then balance can bring even deeper meanings and we find the effectiveness in all aspects of life.
I do find it easier to maintain a friendly environment with grapplers to test our skills than with say some thing like eagle claw methods that combine strikes and Chin Na. My reason being that it is easer for some one to get hurt.
For sparring these kinds of systems we come up with some rules (just to note our internal martial art school is open to all styles and some older accomplished external fighter join to learn the higher level fighting strategies of TCC and overall health after abusing their bodies in other systems).
We obviously do not use full force strikes but it is the Chin Na that I think is dangerous if one happens to hit the “wrong” (or “right” depending on situation) angle in application or to be clear following through with a movement instead of stopping once we “get a grip” takes a great deal of control on both parts. Nice talking to you Peace.
That is interesting TCC being mostly a close range fighting system does indeed have many similarities to this type of wrestling. I have found getting in close is an advantage to striking systems and changing the angle of attack (facing liner attacks) yet with grapplers they seem to have a better grip on the inside fighting methods.
There are many claims and actual accomplishment of Tai Chi Chuan being effective for great balance yet when we become a balance (as soon as there is weight on one side the other side can become full to redirect the movement or attack as you say, then balance can bring even deeper meanings and we find the effectiveness in all aspects of life.
I do find it easier to maintain a friendly environment with grapplers to test our skills than with say some thing like eagle claw methods that combine strikes and Chin Na. My reason being that it is easer for some one to get hurt.
For sparring these kinds of systems we come up with some rules (just to note our internal martial art school is open to all styles and some older accomplished external fighter join to learn the higher level fighting strategies of TCC and overall health after abusing their bodies in other systems).
We obviously do not use full force strikes but it is the Chin Na that I think is dangerous if one happens to hit the “wrong” (or “right” depending on situation) angle in application or to be clear following through with a movement instead of stopping once we “get a grip” takes a great deal of control on both parts. Nice talking to you Peace.
- Yang Shen
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- Location: between heaven & earth
by Wushuer » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:36 pm
Yang Shen,
I have found TCC to be effective at any range. Long throw, medium or short, it's all good.
However, I happen to have specialized mostly in close quarters, or short throw, techniques, which include grappling, or wrestling if you prefer.
The Manchu heritage and the preference for small frame TCC of the Wu family put me into a system where close quarters fighting is highly advanced and freely taught. We practiced wrestling, hence grappling, as a matter of course.
Ask anyone who's tussled with me in the last ten years or so, they've gotten to know me up close and personal.
My son, who is now about three inches taller and about ten pounds heavier than me (and threatens to reach the six foot seven inch height of one of his uncles, OY) tried to grab a piece of me a couple of weeks ago, to show the old man he was getting "stronger" than me.
He found out one thing all right, NEVER grab the old man, for any reason.
Once he picked himself up off the floor about six feet from where he tried to bear hug me, he gave that idea up as probably not one of his better ones.
Peace to you. May your path to enlightenment be short.
I have found TCC to be effective at any range. Long throw, medium or short, it's all good.
However, I happen to have specialized mostly in close quarters, or short throw, techniques, which include grappling, or wrestling if you prefer.
The Manchu heritage and the preference for small frame TCC of the Wu family put me into a system where close quarters fighting is highly advanced and freely taught. We practiced wrestling, hence grappling, as a matter of course.
Ask anyone who's tussled with me in the last ten years or so, they've gotten to know me up close and personal.
My son, who is now about three inches taller and about ten pounds heavier than me (and threatens to reach the six foot seven inch height of one of his uncles, OY) tried to grab a piece of me a couple of weeks ago, to show the old man he was getting "stronger" than me.
He found out one thing all right, NEVER grab the old man, for any reason.
Once he picked himself up off the floor about six feet from where he tried to bear hug me, he gave that idea up as probably not one of his better ones.
Peace to you. May your path to enlightenment be short.
- Wushuer
- Posts: 631
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:01 am
by Anderzander » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:00 pm
I found taiji works very well when on the floor.
You can still stick to them and by neutralising their weight through the body and into the ground to offset their technique.
If they can't get their centre of gravity where they need it then they can't apply their technique.
Its good fun.
I used to play this like a game with my first teacher when I was much younger - my force used to fall through him and he would discharge from his chest or stomach and shoot me up in the air!
I don't know how he did that - but it was great fun at the time. I'd be coming back for more all day if he'd let me
Nostalgia aside.... what I am saying is that the a lot of the principles work lying down.
Steve
[This message has been edited by Anderzander (edited 03-21-2004).]
You can still stick to them and by neutralising their weight through the body and into the ground to offset their technique.
If they can't get their centre of gravity where they need it then they can't apply their technique.
Its good fun.
I used to play this like a game with my first teacher when I was much younger - my force used to fall through him and he would discharge from his chest or stomach and shoot me up in the air!
I don't know how he did that - but it was great fun at the time. I'd be coming back for more all day if he'd let me
Nostalgia aside.... what I am saying is that the a lot of the principles work lying down.
Steve
[This message has been edited by Anderzander (edited 03-21-2004).]
- Anderzander
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:01 am
- Location: UK
by Anderzander » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:03 pm
I found taiji works very well when on the floor.
You can still stick to them and by neutralising their weight through the body, and into the ground, offset their technique.
If they can't get their centre of gravity where they need it then they can't apply their technique.
Its good fun.
I used to play this like a game with my first teacher when I was much younger - my force used to fall through him and he would discharge from his chest or stomach and shoot me up in the air!
I don't know how he did that - but it was great fun at the time. I'd be coming back for more all day if he'd let me
Nostalgia aside.... what I am saying is that a lot of the principles work lying down.
Steve
[This message has been edited by Anderzander (edited 03-21-2004).]
You can still stick to them and by neutralising their weight through the body, and into the ground, offset their technique.
If they can't get their centre of gravity where they need it then they can't apply their technique.
Its good fun.
I used to play this like a game with my first teacher when I was much younger - my force used to fall through him and he would discharge from his chest or stomach and shoot me up in the air!
I don't know how he did that - but it was great fun at the time. I'd be coming back for more all day if he'd let me
Nostalgia aside.... what I am saying is that a lot of the principles work lying down.
Steve
[This message has been edited by Anderzander (edited 03-21-2004).]
- Anderzander
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:01 am
- Location: UK
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