TaiChi Neigong

TaiChi Neigong

Postby CheeFattTaichi » Sat May 14, 2005 5:04 am

Hi guys,

Anyone has any experience or existingly doing any kind of neigong/qigong to complement taichi chuan? Though taichi chuan itself if practiced correctly is a very powerful qigong but I know they are many people also practise other types of qigong to complement their taichi. Example, Cheng Man Ching adopted Tso family qigong into his taichi, while others use hard qiqong. Personally I used zhangzhuang, which is a common practise in taichi but not made known to many as it was treated as secrets then until Yiquan founder Wang Zian Zhai openly publicize zhanzhuang.

Care to share?
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Postby Polaris » Sat May 14, 2005 6:19 am

Yes, the Wu family teaches 24 forms of ch'i kung or qigong for "power generation" in martial coordination and general health. This was said to be inherited from Yang Pan-hou and, until very recently, it was kept absolutely secret and only taught to family members and the most trusted senior disciples.

Apparently, the term qigong is only one of convenience, the term my Sifu says was used (if one was used at all) when he was young was T'ai Chi kung or Taijigong.

Sifu says that he believes the need for military secrecy has passed, and lets us teach some of the simpler, safer routines to general students (and especially senior citizens) now.
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Postby CheeFattTaichi » Mon May 16, 2005 10:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Polaris:
[B]Yes, the Wu family teaches 24 forms of ch'i kung or qigong for "power generation" in martial coordination and general health. This was said to be inherited from Yang Pan-hou and, until very recently, it was kept absolutely secret and only taught to family members and the most trusted senior disciples.

B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Polaris, would you be kind enough to briefly describe this 24 forms of Chi kung or taichi kung. I do 5 forms of taichi kung too but they concentrate on chi building more than neili (Internal strength). For neili development, personally I find zhanzhuang has more effect. It was also informed to me by my sifu that in the past Yang family also do the form in very very slow motion, almost like zhanzhuang but a moving kind of zhanzhuang, far slower than our normal taichi routine.
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Postby bamboo leaf » Tue May 17, 2005 2:39 am

wanted to post a link.
the link didnt work.

ah well another time




[This message has been edited by bamboo leaf (edited 05-16-2005).]
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Postby Polaris » Tue May 17, 2005 6:59 am

Well, actually, zhanzhuang is a part of it. Each of the variations of each of the 24 forms takes an aspect of the form and works it in a specific pattern to be able to generate a specific result.

There are four main states involved in our style of training:

1. Stillness inside, stillness outside (zhanzhuang or post standing, in various 24 form positions)

2. Stillness inside, movement outside (this also describes the hand and weapon forms and pushing hands, as well as some of the simpler moving 24 form patterns)

3. Movement inside, stillness outside (breathing patterns in post stances, "little sky")

4. Movement inside, movement outside (breathing patterns coordinated with moving 24 form routines)
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Postby Polaris » Tue May 17, 2005 7:05 am

Also, I have seen interviews with Yang Zhenduo Laoshi where he describes having to repeatedly train painfully slow forms (40 minute plus) throughout his youth.

We have this s-l-o-w training in Wu style as well, but it is rare nowadays, usually only done in winter (for the heat!)
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Postby CheeFattTaichi » Tue May 17, 2005 2:32 pm

Many years ago I used to do the form in 45-50 minutes, normally it only takes 20 minutes. The slower version generates more chi as compared to doing it fast with more repetition. It also build strength into the legs. But then when I shifted, I don't have the luxury of space and time, hence I settled for zhanzhuang. Zhanzhuang enables one to establish internal connection faster but doing the form enables one to further strengthen these connections in movement. I think it will do a lot of good for beginners to first know the form, once he is quite familiar with the form work on zhanzhuang to build internal connection. After internal connections are established, move back to form to mobilize this inetrnal li. Zhanzhuang is sometimes describe as short cut or bridge linking internal development with external. This may be true from my own observation as many taichi form-only practitioners take many years to understand internal strength while people who do zhanzhuang or other forms of neigong often realise that after a year or so practice.
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Postby The Wandering Brit » Tue May 17, 2005 4:12 pm

We do standing qigong at the start of every class, starting and ending in Wuji, we work through 6 postures -3 opening and 3 closing - holding each for between 30 seconds and a few minutes. At the moment our teacher encourages us to bend the legs as much as possible without breaking structure.

I find that when I'm doing it properly - or what I perceive to be properly - it's a pretty intense workout, despite being static. When I practice at home I always do these exercises before doing the form, as we have always been taught that it is a very important part of our practice.
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