<<when your form has reached a stage where it really is internal guided by yi directed by qi this will happen by itself not something to be forced.......<<The key and main gate is really that of sung and really using no force in practice all else will follow.>>Bamboo Leaf
I have heard it repeated often on this board that everyone has different learning methods. So I will assume that for each stage and individual the method for acheiving understanding is subtly different. One can enter through same door/gate? with different keys.
[[ For example, for Hand clouds...I could not find the threaded connection through the HIPS ~ break my head over it all I wanted~ I had to find my WAIST & dantian (the area all around and above my hips...THEN my hands felt the whole body connection...such a subtle discretion, but just the way it worked for me. Even now I find I can still lose this awareness...the feeling of this connection with my waist. I expect to have to repeat this connection many times more before becoming comfortable enough, familiar enough, with this connection to induce it with only mental will (yi) at whim, with consistency.]]
So I can imagine that for some, perhaps more senior students? those with more experience? that the simple use of yi will indeed induce song, as you state Bamboo Leaf. I have had moments like this, but they are rare and I am seeking some semblance of consistency in the stage I am at right now. Maybe with a few more years of practice I will be there...maybe not...I don't know. Right now it is mimicry of the external posture, as Jerry explains, through observation, and striving for the essentials which delivers, most often, for me, the inner "relaxation" I require to find that elusive ( yet great feeling
) song state of being. I do not find it easy to capture this essence through abstract inner ideals...yet. I find it much easier to mimick external shape/postures through the essentials and observation of those who have mastered it~blatant external physical quotients.
Personally, I have found that using the thought of "using no force in practice" just leads me to feeling like mush...just does not work for my mind...yong yi bu yong li...still not effective for me...at least not yet
<<Don't mistakenly treat concaving of chest or pulling of back as a posture to attain. This will add more stiffness and even obstruct qi flow. You can achieve concave chest by simply dropping your shoulders and relax your chest by sinking upper weight into dantian and kua. To understand its purpose, you must search internally to see how by relaxing and dropping the chest and shoulder, you create an internal connection between upper body and dantian, espeacially the kua (hip). Its purpose is to align the connection so that any exertion of force by the kua can be transmitted up to the upper body. In short, the whole upper and lower body acted as one unit. You need to experimental yourself to find the internal connection and the energy path, then `aha!' concave chest will become second nature.
Pulling of back too needs to be explore using the same manner - force or energy. Once you established the connection with kua, you then experiment how to connect it to the hands and pulling the back is the trick. Don't do this on physical level but apprehend them based on internal connection and strength. Once you get that, your taiji will have great internal strength.>> Cheefatt TC
I THINK, I understand and agree with what you are saying...let me repeat then my own understanding and if you disagree please let me know...Once kua is relaxed one can attempt to capture hanxiong Babei?...on this I agree from experience...its 4am right now, I woke up recently and my kua is just too stiff and groggy to relax properly...hence I could not demonstrate hangxiong Babei at this moment if my life depended on it.
(( Master Yang Jun, bruce Lee and TC masters kua's are always relaxed!?
~ I am unfortunately not in their physical condition...but these people are definitely the sparks which have helped me realize the existance of hanxiong Babei in the first place and I can learn much from observing them~absolutely Jerry, thank you.))
So I think I am agreeing, Cheefatt, when I say it is a union of both relaxed kua, dantian full and finding hanxiong Babei which helps me to achieve the song state. All the yi in the world right now, at 4 in the morning cannot induce me to be song...my body will not cooperate. I am standing up now, trying to try these techniques of hanxiong Babei and relax kua...but cannot with all the yi or essentials in the world...need to go warm up first
In other words I feel one must be physically prepared to use yi with such whim, and I am not on several plains~often~
In other words, it is still a long and conscious process before I can "apprehend them based on internal connection"
For me, personally, the formula for acheiving that would be something like
relax body~warm ups, lubricate joints, unknot muscles etc... THEN...try to song~ how? by trying to employ the ten essentials...esp the ones revolving around settling kua and tandien....then trying to hanxiong Babei...~I find once the body is warmed up and "relaxed"~free from blatant stiffness~ that I can then attempt to tuck and round the tail, loosen waist/ hip/ kua, and fill the dantien....then, I can TRY to hanxiong....then, if all has gone well, I am feeling pretty song and have developped a half decent root
THEN I can consider the other essentials with reasonable justification.
So, again, I think I understand and agree with what you are saying Cheefatt....in my own complicated, novice manner.
I will try to go for loosen kua, fill dantien THEN relax shoulders THEN move onto conscious awareness of hanxiong Babei...this might help...for I find that last step of pulling up back conflicts with lowering/relaxing shoulders....maybe a little more conscious preparation of shoulders FIRST will help eliminate that conflict. Thanks, I will try.
Sorry for this rambling, meandering, perhaps difficult post to digest...
I am just a novice trying to understand...not meaning to sound cocky in any way about anything. If I have , please forgive it is unintentional. And please feel free to correct my thoughts on these things...still sorting everything out in my mind. Patient repetition in different ways is often helpful. I am not disagreeing with anyone, simply trapped in the level I am at, striving for understanding. I could easily be repeating the same errors of comprehension even after an explanation...and not because I wish to, or am deciding to confirm my present understanding...but simply because I have not "caught it" yet...
So...thanks for your explanations and patience!
[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 07-29-2005).]