Fighting

Fighting

Postby gould25 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:15 pm

I'm only at first years of practice, but i need to know how to build characteristics of fighting in tai chi yang . I love this martial art and i think that this is a martial art so i want to see too this aspect.
Thanks
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Postby Anderzander » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:11 pm

Talk to your teacher.

Everyone has a different take on this so you are best to make sure you are working in conjunction with him rather than against him.
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Postby bamboo leaf » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:10 pm

Another point would be to really acquire the skill of the art, when you do this all else will be pretty clear. People know how to fight with out studying anything. Only a few reach the point of knowing taiji, something that requires much study.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:04 pm

Gould25,

You can only learn the martial art through hands on instruction from a qualified teacher. There are no shortcuts.
Knowing the martial art is knowing how to correctly and appropriately apply the principles of TCC. It's not enough to know the words, you must know the correct feel of the principles in your body.
Only a qualified teacher can take you to that point.
It will take a long time and a lot of hard work to learn this. However the journey will be as exciting as the destination.
I'm not there yet and I may never be, I certainly need much more practice, but I am enjoying the journey.

Bob
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Postby shugdenla » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:33 pm

gould25,

Push hands is not fighting. It is a training guide only. There is no such animal as tai chi fighting, etc. You must train sanshou (general term) utilizing shuaijiao and qi'na or combination thereof.
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Postby cheefatt taichi » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:52 am

Sansau refers to fighting techniques per se. A block and a punch in Karate can be said as sansau too. It is not a system.

Taichi sansaus are found in the form, each and every postures in the form is a sansau too. White Crane Spread Wings, Punch Below Elbow, White Horse Parting all these are sansaus. You just need to learn how to apply the techniques in the form practically.

But to apply these sansaus in the Taichi ways, one need to have the skills of ting jin (listening). This is acquired thru push hands.

Ting jin enable one to apply taichi principles to set-up the opponent. Taichi principle advocates that a fighter need to know his opponent and be vigilant to his slightest move (hence, we attach to listen)Fighter do not resist opponent so that he doesn't need to contest strength (yield). We then follow his movement and lead it futher (Lead). We then seal him by destroy his power (seal & uprooting). This is the set-up skill before applying taichi sansau.

Once opponent is trapped, we strike using any of the technique in the form. But we strike with internal power. Where does the internal power comes from? It comes from internal strength. Where does internal strength comes from? It comes from the correct posture and alignment required in the form. Internal strength is mobilized to become internal power by our ability to Song.

In summary, sansau is in the form. Form build strength and song change strength to power. PH train us to use the sansau with internal strength and power effectively the taichi way. There you have it.
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Postby taichimartialarts.com » Tue May 16, 2006 3:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anderzander:
<B>Talk to your teacher.

Everyone has a different take on this so you are best to make sure you are working in conjunction with him rather than against him.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In order to learn fighting from tai chi you will have to use common sense and not make tai chi more complicated than it really is. In Yang Chen Fu Tai chi application book it is said that after 2 years I can beat most men 10 times my strength. (Not 20 years, 2 years) What are we missing today?
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Postby chris » Tue May 16, 2006 9:17 pm

Whether or not you can get it in 2 years depends on your foundation, your interest, your teacher and fellow students, and other factors outside of your control.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Thu May 18, 2006 9:52 pm

Two years? Certainly, anyone can do that in two years.
Anyone who has 2 years of non-stop, full time, all out training in the martial art of Tai Chi Chuan will be able to do that in two years. No problem.
How often do you practice?
Like most people, I only have about one hour, maybe sometimes two hours a day to practice. Not ten or twelve, one or two. Tops. On a good day.
Now do the math on how long it will take you to train to fighting excellence.
Let's see. If Yang Cheng Fu practiced ten hours a day and I practice only one, then it's going to take me ten times longer than he figured to get to the point of being able to defeat that pesky opponent.
Ten times two years....?
Ah!
There you go. It's going to take you some time to get to Yang Cheng Fu level. Or even to the level of a serious, dedicated student of Yang Cheng Fu's.
Besides, what's the hurry? Tai Chi Chuan is a scenic journey, not a sprint. Relax and enjoy the scenery.

Bob
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Postby chris » Fri May 19, 2006 9:22 pm

If you meet a few full-time practitioners who haven't got it, and a few part-timers who have, then you will see it is not a function of time or effort.
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Postby qiphlow » Tue May 23, 2006 2:28 am

i would argue that the skill one acquires is totally a result of time and effort. granted, some people will have to spend less time and effort than others, but one still has to put in SOME practice before they "get it"--especially with something like taijiquan. one may very well instantly understand the theory of an application, but i think one needs to test the theory thru actual practice before one truly understands said application. whether that process takes five minutes or five years, it's still a matter of time and effort.
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Postby Bob Ashmore » Tue May 23, 2006 1:35 pm

qiphlow,
I agree. I don't know anyone who didn't have to expend time and effort to acquire great skill in any discipline. Some will spend more time and effort than others, but no one is born with a perfect understanding of any art.
An aptitude for an art? Surely. Excellence or perfection? Not a chance.
That will only be gained by putting in time and effort. That amount time will inevitably vary according to circumstance, but it is required nonetheless.

That said, I think I'll go practice. I sure do need it.
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