Yang Shao Hou

[TaiChiMan]

I'm always looking for any information I can get on master Yang Shao Hou - did any of his Tai Chi survive, if so, who inherited it? Do they still teach? Considering that my experience in Tai Chi is only about 2 years, most of the practitioners on this forum will be much more experienced than I am, so I bow to your expertise in advance.
However, what little I've been able to find out is that master Yang Shao Hou was very tough, that he had only a few students, and that his Tai Chi was outstanding for ordinary self-defense.
Right now, I'm practising Wu style, which is the closest I could get to it, but to study the original Yang Shao Hou style would be a real thrill.

[Frankbabyuk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TaiChiMan:
<B>I'm always looking for any information I can get on master Yang Shao Hou - did any of his Tai Chi survive, if so, who inherited it? Do they still teach? Considering that my experience in Tai Chi is only about 2 years, most of the practitioners on this forum will be much more experienced than I am, so I bow to your expertise in advance.
However, what little I've been able to find out is that master Yang Shao Hou was very tough, that he had only a few students, and that his Tai Chi was outstanding for ordinary self-defense.
Right now, I'm practising Wu style, which is the closest I could get to it, but to study the original Yang Shao Hou style would be a real thrill.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi TaiChiMan,

I belive the style you're looking for is called the Guanping Yang style. Guanping was Yang Lu Chan's original stomping ground before he went to the big city to teach.

The style is still practiced, although is not as widespread as the Yang ChengFu form. Master Gau introduced it to the United States. Some people on this forum practice it in the USA and there's also group in the UK who practice it as well.

While the postures are pretty much the same (more vertical spine though) the Guanping style is more obviously martial to look at than the Yang ChengFu style.

All the best,
Frank

[TaiChiMan]

Hi Frank,
Thanks for alerting me to the Guanping style, I hadn't even heard of it before. Does anyone know what the official Yang family opinion is of Chang Yiu-chun (Erle Montaigue's teacher), Tchoung Ta Chen and an unnamed third student.
The problem I have, as an ordinary outsider, is keeping apart what is legit and what isn't.
Is there an official opinion in the mainstream Yang style camp?

[Audi]

Hi TaiChiMan and Frank,

I think you all are referring to the Guang Ping style promoted by Kuo Lien-Ying and reportedly transmitted by Yang Banhou. I have two of Kuo's books, one of which describes a 64 movement form.

Although I cannot vouch for its accuracy, I think the following link should provide useful information.

Take care,
Audi

http://www.users.qwest.net/~dinkgor/kuo_lien_ying.htm

[Frankbabyuk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Audi:
<B>Hi TaiChiMan and Frank,

I think you all are referring to the Guang Ping style promoted by Kuo Lien-Ying and reportedly transmitted by Yang Banhou. I have two of Kuo's books, one of which describes a 64 movement form.

Although I cannot vouch for its accuracy, I think the following link should provide useful information.

Take care,
Audi

http://www.users.qwest.net/~dinkgor/kuo_lien_ying.htm</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

Thanks for the information Audi. That's a very interesting Website. The Guanping style that we practice looks a lot different to the Guanping style displayed on that Website though.

I've been talking to a Guanping practitioner in the States from the lineage of Master Gau and sent him a video clip of our form. As it turns out we both practice a different form. However, when you consider that Guanping is an 'area' of China (to the best of my knowledge) that's not surprising.

My Sifu tells me that over the years he's seen lots of different Guanping Yang forms, some look like ours, some don't.

At the end of the day though what's important is whether what you learn really works or not and whether you enjoy the practice of it. Everything else is just wallpaper, interesting background but not that pertinent.

All the best,
Frank.

[gene]

Hello everyone,

I've been practicing the Guang Ping 64 form for some time now. If you are interested in researching the form, you may want to do an Internet search for information on Sifu Henry Look, who was one of Guo's students. Sifu Look teaches on the West Coast and is a leading exponent of this style. He was the subject of a photo layout on the form that was published in Inside Kung Fu magazine in the last year or two. I learned the form from Sifu Al Bender in New Jersey, whose website is http://www.albenderskungfuacademy.com. Also, if the form you are practicing differs substantially from that which is shown in Madame Guo's books, or in Wave Hands Like Clouds by Lipo and Ananda, I would have to question whether it is really the Guang Ping form, or some other style. (Uh-oh, did I just open up a variation of the "Traditional Yang" v. Cheng Man Ching argument?)

Gene

[Frankbabyuk]

Oh dear! Please lets not get into a "who is doing the real form" debate with this as well!(groan!)

Gene, to the best of my knowledge there's no 'Quangping Yang Tai Chi Police' who are authorised to go around saying who is, or who isn't doing the 'real' stuff.

I refer you to my previous post on the subject:

"My Sifu tells me that over the years he's seen lots of different Guanping Yang forms, some look like ours, some don't.

At the end of the day though what's important is whether what you learn really works or not and whether you enjoy the practice of it. Everything else is just wallpaper, interesting background but not that pertinent."

Regards,
Frank

[Trip]

Hi All,
In reply to the original query about YSH's lineage there is an 'official' Yang family tree in the latest edition of Tai Chi International (page 23) and this gives a family lineage from YSH through to the present day. One presumes (dangerous ?!) that as they are direct line decendants that they practice YSH's form.
I am a Wu stylist too and there is a connection in that 3rd generation Master Wu Kung Yi (1900-1970) trained with Master Yang Shao Hao for a period of time.

[TaiChiMan]

Hi Trip,
Thanks for alerting me. As I'm not familiar with the magazine in question yet, can you tell me what the lineages are? It would be interesting to see if there are any official lineage holders of the Yang Shao Hou style. Certainly, there is little literature about his style - the only thing I could find was in Chinese.

TaiChiMan

[gene]

Hi Frank:

I hear you. But as to Guo's 64 form, we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO, while differing interpretations are important and necessary (minor example: Guo held the hook hand in single whip much lower than many practitioners do), there is a stylistic and technical line that you can't cross and still call it the 64 form. Sorry.

Gene

[Frankbabyuk]

Cool. That's fine with me. We don't call our form the 64-form and claim no lineage from Master Gou - we call our form the Quanping Yang form.

Best,
Frank.

[Trip]

Hi TaiChiMan,
Lineages given as:
Yang Zhao Xiong (Shao Hao) 1862-1930 > Yang Zhen Sheng 1878-1949 > Yang Wen Bin 1927 + Yang Wen Zhong 1931 + Yang Yu Ping 1935 all three of these still alive and with a whole batch of further descendents. I'll just give you the eldest of each: Yang Yong 1956; Yang Shu Min 1956; Yang Yong Jun 1962; and from these: Yang Dan Dan Female 1983; Yang Jin Female 1981 and Yang Fan Female 1989. There is one male descendent from a younger sibling: Yang Jie 1982.
Tai Chi International magazine is definitely worth reading you can find details at: http://www.tai-chi.com/magazine.htm

[TaiChiMan]

Hi Trip,
Thanks, that's great. I'm wondering whether of Yang Yong, Yang Shu Min, Yang Yong, Yang Dan Dan, Yang Jin, Yang Fan and Yang Jie teach Tai Chi, and whether, they teach Shao Hou's original style and forms.
It's great to hear that the man had so many descendents, as I read that only one of his sons survived.

The Yang Shao Hou style is really something special, because it emphsises self-defense in a realistic and practical manner. Any information would not only help me, but further the quality and state of Tai Chi Chuan itself.

Alex

[Jon Nicklin]

I have been trying to find out about Yang Shao Hou's transmission for a while now. There doesn't seem to be any 'official designated successor' to his teachings like there was (apparently ) for YCF. So far, I have found out the names of some students:

Wu Tunan (beijing)
Ma Runzhi
Tian Zhaolin (shanghai)
You Zhixue
Dong Runfang
Liu Xizhe
Xiong Yanghe (Taiwan)
Li Shouqian (Taiwan)
Miao Lian
Gu Lisheng
Cao Lianfang

The main (more visible) groups that claim to practice his system are: Xiong's group on Taiwan, Wu Tunan's descendants in Beijing and students of Tian Zhaolin. However, I have not been able to see for myself what these people practice, so I cannot comment on similarities in curricula and practice. I know You Zhixue taught at least one person, and there is also a guy named Zhang Zhuoxing in Guizhou who learned from Gu Lisheng. I have not been able to find any mention of Erle Montaigue's teacher Chang Yiu-chun.

Unfortunately, if you want to find YSH's real teachings, you're going to have to travel to China, live there for a few (many?) years, visit/find out about the different branches and their claims, and then endure the bitter practice. Perosnally, I hope the descendants of Yang Zhensheng practice the art, but again, it would take a visit to Yongnian to find out

[Erik]

Hi all,

Frankbabyuk - you said "...as long as it works." Please define "works" in the context of a discussion about Yang Shaohou. Yang Shaohou had a reputation for being one of the meanest Taijiquan fighters in any Taiji styles' history. Are you refering to fighting ability when you say "works"?