Postby Michael » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am


You are indeed correct. High Pat on Horse, Go with Palm. It was late when I posted and I did not notice my omission. Thanks for pointing that out.

I don't know if it is change, but that is what my teacher is teaching. He learned it at the Michigan Center.

Did you get that list of references for "osteo" studies that I sent you last spring (or so)? Just wondering.

psalchemist, without instruction you are sure to come up with a few interesting transitions. I don't know if they will be "wrong" or not, but they won't be "standard". Have fun.

Wushuer, Thgough I am famliar with the 13, I have not learned it yet. You like it that much?

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Postby Michael » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:59 am


Concerning "change". The work is to achieve a certain "openness". This in Tai Chi Chuan or in life. It really refers to a breakdown in "ego", the "internal dialog", what have you. Only then is acceptance and "going with the flow" (forgive me for that cliche) really possible.

We practice to stop thought, develop linkage, increase our sensitivity so that we can respond in the martial art. We in a sense, cut ourselves out of the equation. By this I mean we stop "forcing" things. When we do that, we can change on demand.

We have no argument. Just so you understand where I am coming from--I feel that the word "choose" to be too subjective--"I" choose. And it is by definition. The object for me in all practice is to slowly diminish the "I" part, so that the choices are made on their own. Input determines the response. Of coarse once that is possible I can be "I" once again. Now if only I could live long enough.....philosophy is just talk. The truth is in the doing. Back to practice!
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Postby Wushuer » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:09 pm

I do like the 13 posture form a lot.
It works very well for me to sneak away at work and get in some practice. I have a one story stairway just outside my office at work that no one really uses for much of anything. It is off the beaten path quite a bit, I believe it was primarily put there as a fire escape.
At the bottom, then under this staircase is a nice sized stairwell, completely cut off from the view of anyone and totally empty. Even when someone goes up or down the stairs, which as I mentioned is extremely rare, they have no way to know I'm even there.
That is where I practice when I can sneak away during the day. I can do the 13 posture form there just as it is. No modifications to the steps, no having to stop and take a few steps backwards. So it works for me quite well.
I can't do long forms there without the stops and taking of steps to reposition myself, so I tend not to practice long forms during the work day. Besides, who has that kind of time to sneak away?
The 13 posture form offers a good way to sneak in some real practice in less time than most folks spend on a smoke break.
So, yes, I guess I do like it that much.
Funny, my instructor learned this form at the Michigan YCF Center as well.
I am going to get the modification to the beginning of the form tonight at class. I may as well start doing it the "proper" way.
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Postby psalchemist » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:18 pm

Greetings all,

Thanks for the patience and perseverence in explaining your point of view, conveying your message.
I think I understand your gesture more completely now.
As you stated, the key to success in Taijiquan is based in practice.
I must agree...Practice will produce a more skilled practitioner, a superior martial artist.

As you stated repeatedly, with meritous cause, the 'reason' behind the practice is determined by the motive for, self defense etc. and that this aspect will have bearing on a practitioners designs for instruction.

In my particular case,considering both of your points, I have come to the recent deduction that the philosophy of Taijiquan IS my primary 'reason'.
I couldn't previously, in all honesty provide an adequate response to the question of: WHY Taijiquan? I could not comprehend, myself, why I was frequenting these discussions so closely at such a premature level of my practice. It was something of a mystery even to me, until a couple of days ago when all the pieces fell into place, and mystery transformed into astonishment.
The answers to these 'final' questions arrived in my mailbox a couple of days ago in the form of a publication acceptance notice.
That was when I realized that Taijiquan -FOR ME- IS ,moreover, of philosophical importance.
Talking Taiji IS actually my key.
Exposure to the theories residing within Taijiquan, ChiGong etc.., Taoism etc.., and the I Ching systems ARE IN FACT more PRACTICAL in nature for MY 'purpose' than the actual practice of it.
Although I have no intention of reducing my practice time, I will no longer, on the other hand, feel (guilty?) for pursuing the philosophical avenues as devotedly as I have.

If anyone is wondering why I am participating so thoroughly in these discussions as a mere student to Taijiquan, it is because it has become something of a source of inspiration for my pursuits, not necessarily to apply the methods directly to an immediate practice situation.

If not for your initial input of I-Ching substance, I might still be fumbling around in the dark on these issues....You're right! I really DO NEED a decent copy of the I-Ching for my present literary/artistic endeavor. Eventually we should be able to exchange interpretations of the I-Ching hexagram movements if you wish, however, very dissimilar to the first idea I had described, in the final presentation I don't know if we could actually compare...It will probably be like apples and oranges. I thank you for the inadvertant clue along the path of my life investigation.

To all,
Your indulgence towards my queries has been an invaluable resource in leading me to my 'primary purpose' in the fine art of Taijiquan, for which I am very grateful. I hope to continue to draw information from this well of inspiration.

Many thanks to everyone.
Best regards,
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Postby psalchemist » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:25 pm


Your advice on the transitions of the 13 posture form makes sense...I won't work at that too diligently on my own, but I WILL have a little fun with it.

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Re: Practice

Postby sifu990 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:26 am

how do I practise?

point about default mode of going thru same old. is to me building a base, wider the base of experience, higher possible peak.

lots of solo training to learn about own energy, lots of partner work to manage others energy. my training expression overall is very focussed upon martial.

daily working on specific core concepts, to me things like timing, fluidity, body linkage, angles, positions.
also strength concepts, like borrowing, evading others,, adding, refining my own

the spirit part? sum total of physical mental emotional will etc... those ideas of fire/water etc are more holistic emotion side, to me anyhow. my overall spirit stays pretty standard, my daily emotional attitudes add fire/water etc to the expression of spirit with boost in specific areas.

my meditations are concerned with self knowledge to unblock repressed stuff/push growth and exposure to new perspectives.
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Re: Practice

Postby sifu990 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:45 am

I might also mention that in my opinion, at least until one has mastered their art, that one should work extremely hard physically on a regular basis. For me, relaxation comes from two directions. One is pushing limits, to sink, drop shoulders, extend just a bit more, exaggerate a body wave to wake up muscles not used enough, etc. just moving every joint on every move can be exhausting in its own manner. Finding ways to use unusal power sources, for example in a punch, accessing chest muscle movement, lats pulling shoulder down, back muscles flexing to move shoulders, legs and stomach/intercostals to pull the torso forwards and down as I push etc are hard work.

I prob sound very much like an external orientated practitioner, but my end goal and direct expression with partner work is full relaxed mobility, heavy limbs feeling by partner tho it feels light from me, slow motion, tiny movements with correct timing to avoid quick forceful attacks.

I find few schools or practitioners who get what I am trying to achieve. but I do have fairly good success and am content with my direction in training.
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Re: Practice

Postby Sugelanren » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:34 am

Hi guys.

My practice. At the moment. 1 hour 15 every day (whenever i can in the day)

Chi kung - Yeung San Hei Kung, 35 minutes. I do 20 minutes Chi kung 1, and 15 minutes Chi kung 2. 2 is a one legged version of 1. This Chi Kung is based on the Zhan Zhuang system and is good for root and core development.
Short form
Long form
Dao form (if i have it with me)
Cheung Kuen Se Ying (Long Fist Snake Form). Very low, very sweaty, very exhilarating.

I am planning on trying to get in 500 hours practice this year (working on the 10,000 hours theory).

I do the same thing every day.
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