Other Yang family descendants?

Other Yang family descendants?

Postby Wushuer » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:11 pm

I was surfing around in the "Tai Chi Info" section of the Yangfamilytaichi website, re-reading the FAQ's, looking at the pictures again and re-reading all the essays to refresh my memory on the gems hidden in plain sight there.
I clicked on "misc", just to remind myself what was in there (as I haven't gone there in ages), and found the link to the family tree.
Looking at the tree again, I noticed that Yang Cheng Fu had a son, Yang Zhen Guo, born later than Yang Zhen Duo and his older brothers, who has many descendants listed after him in the tree.
My question is this:
Do any of them teach Yang family Tai Chi Chuan?
There is, of course, no earth shatteringly important reason for my knowing this. I am merely curious about the rest of the descendants of Yang Cheng Fu and if they are involved in their famous family business.
No sinister meanings or hidden reasons for my question, I swear, merely plain old curiosity on my part.
So much, and yet so little, is known about the previous generations, I guess I'm just wondering what is happening in the current Yang family tree, other than Yang Zhen Ji and Yang Jun. Oh, and of course the Grand Master.
If this question is, for some reason, considered rude or innapropriate, please let me know.
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Postby JerryKarin » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:24 pm

Yang Zhenguo, Yang Zhenduo's younger brother, is alive and teaches taiji in China. He has published a book detailing a shortened form which he teaches as a preliminary to learning the full Yang Chengfu form. It has all the moves but eliminates some repetitions, similar to Yang Zhenduo's competition form. I have the book and am planning to translate some bits of it for a Third Rep column (it's going to be a while because I'm very busy at present).
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Postby Wushuer » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:18 pm

That's great!
Thanks Jerry. As always, your information is greatly appreciated.
I take it that Yang Zhen Guo's book is only avialable in Chinese? I have been searching for an hour and haven't found anything about it online.
Any word on his children?
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Postby JerryKarin » Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:34 am

Here are a few pictures from the book:

Image

Image
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Postby Wushuer » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:18 pm

Thanks Jerry!
Those are very clear pictures of press.
When you get a few minutes a translation of the text of the pictures would be appreciated.
Is it just the forms name, or is there some other info in there?
Still can't locate Yang Zhenguo's book online. I'll keep looking.



[This message has been edited by Wushuer (edited 02-17-2004).]
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Postby Polaris » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:49 pm

The captions say:

Tu 11 "Lu Er"

Tu 12 "Lu San"

Tu 13 "Ji Yi"

Tu 14 "Ji Er"

Tu is a map, diagram or representation, a photo in this case. Yi, Er, San are One, Two, Three in English.
Lu (4th tone) is often translated as "Roll Back." Ji (3rd tone) is often translated as "Press." They are numbers two and three of the eight power generations of T'ai Chi.
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Postby Louis Swaim » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:55 pm

Greetings Wushuer,

You can order Yang Zhenguo's book through Plum Publications. It's in Chinese. Here's a link:

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/lionbks/lb_taichi2.htm

Take care,
Louis

[This message has been edited by Louis Swaim (edited 02-17-2004).]
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Postby Wushuer » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:26 pm

Thank you Louis. I will order this.
I see now why I wasn't finding the book from any search engine, the spelling here is quite different from Yang Zhen Guo, or even Zhenguo.
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Postby Wushuer » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:29 pm

Thanks, Jerry.
I scrolled through quickly and didn't look very closely at the first Lu picture on my way by. I was enjoying the Ji photo's a lot, as they answered a question about the form I never even knew I had.
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Postby Louis Swaim » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:32 am

Greetings Folks,

Upon taking a closer look at these photos in the book, there appears to have been a production error in the sequencing and labelling of these photos. That is, the one labelled 12 should be 13; #13 should be 14; and #14 should be 12.

OK?

Take care,
Louis
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Postby psalchemist » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:32 am

Greetings Jerry,

Thank you for providing those images.
Always some little detail to glean from these observations.



Greetings Louis,

That was a very helpful distinction, thank you.

I was supposing that 14 was a display of "Ru Feng Tsi Bi"...but it looked quite unusual...reversed...and too opened up.
A beginners misconception.

Thanks for making that correction, the order and selection of photos makes much more sense to me now.

Thank you,
Best Regards,
Psalchemist.


[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 02-18-2004).]
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Postby Wushuer » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:29 pm

Louis,
Are you sure these photos are reversed?
I had assumed that since Yang Zhen Guo uses his own, modified, 85 posture form, these were most likely photos of him completing the press and then continuing to the next move in his own forms sequence.
Your observation would make sense, IF he were following the Yang Cheng Fu 103 posture form. But the description for the book on the link you provided clearly references that the book outlines Yang Zhen Guo's own 85 posture form, not Yang Cheng Fu's 103 posture form.
Here's what it says:
"A good explanation of an 85 posture version of the Yang style Tai Chi with emphasis on ease and clear movement. While not emphasizing the more difficult aspects of posture (low stances, extended frame, etc.) the author has retained Yang style's flavor and mechanics. An inexpensive book with excellent photographs."
You may be 100% correct in your assesment, I don't know. I just wanted to point out that there is an alternative explanation for the sequence of the photos.

Jerry,
Could you clear this up for us? I'll be ordering the book with my next paycheck but it'll be a couple of weeks before I get it.
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Postby Wushuer » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:30 pm

Oh, one more thing that I thought of about this book.
What is meant by "While not emphasizing the more difficult aspects of posture (low stances, extended frame, etc.)" in Yang Zhenguo's book?
I understand about not emphasizing low stances, as the Wu family took a similar tack on low stances when they modified their forms. It's not martially necessary to do such low stances, so bringing them up just makes sense to me and apparently the Wu family as well.
What I don't understand is the de-emphasys on "extended frame".
My YCF instructor's favorite saying is "make it open, rounded and extended". He usually says this to remind me that I'm training Yang Cheng Fu's large frame postures in class, not Wu Chien Chuans small frame style, and to get myself back into large frame posturing. But he does say it for the class in general also at various points.
Also, all the literature I've ever discovered about YCF style TCC makes a point to clearly emphasize that extended postures are the recognized correct training postures in YCF style.
This is why the mention of de-emphasys on "extended" postures puzzles me greatly.
I realise this is only a short blurb for the book, but if this is so in Yang Zhenguo's form it makes it sound almost medium or small framed.
Anyone know?
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Postby Louis Swaim » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:33 pm

Greetings Wushuer,

You wrote:
“Are you sure these photos are reversed?
“I had assumed that since Yang Zhen Guo uses his own, modified, 85 posture form, these were most likely photos of him completing the press and then continuing to the next move in his own forms sequence.
Your observation would make sense, IF he were following the Yang Cheng Fu 103 posture form. But the description for the book on the link you provided clearly references that the book outlines Yang Zhen Guo's own 85 posture form, not Yang Cheng Fu's 103 posture form.”


Yes. I’ve had this book for a while, and I think I noticed the photo sequencing error when I first read through it, but I’d forgotten about it until I stared for a while at the photos Jerry posted. Although Yang Zhenguo’s shortened form eliminates some repetitions and differs in some of the transitions, the initial Grasp Sparrow’s Tail sequence is exactly as Yang Zhenduo teaches it. Yang Zhenguo's form description depicts the sequence as I’ve noted above. That is, the photo labeled 14 is a further stage of Lu (rollback), and should precede the two Ji (press) photos. Then, what comes next is An (push).

Another problem is that Yang Zhenguo’s modified form is actually 55 postures, not 85 as the blurb says.

Take care,
Louis


[This message has been edited by Louis Swaim (edited 02-18-2004).]
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Postby Michael » Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:03 am

Though I am not familiar with the text in question. I noticed the same thing about the photos immediately. I have seen some "finish" rollback in nearly the same position as depicted before press.

I am glad I was not "seeing things".

Thanks Louis.
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