Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

by **Bob Ashmore** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:49 pm

Is anyone else planning on going to the Symposium in Nashville next year?
I'm really looking forward to it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow the link on the opening page of this website.

by **mlot** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob Ashmore:
Is anyone else planning on going to the Symposium in Nashville next year?
I'm really looking forward to it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow the link on the opening page of this website. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have acquaintances who live near and work at Vanderbilt University. I certainly hope to attend.

For those of you not wanting to go to the homepage, here is the link: http://www.taichisymposium.com/

[This message has been edited by mlot (edited 01-20-2009).]

by **Bob Ashmore** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:10 pm

mlot,
Look forward to seeing you there then.
I'm most looking forward to taking classes from Yang Zhen Duo. I've not had the honor yet of meeting him, much less taking classes with him.
Of course I'm looking forward to training with all the Grand Masters. I guess I just have a particular soft spot for Yang style...
;-)

by **Barbara Davis** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:12 pm

Hello--I attended the International Forum in Ontario in 2006, and it was a great event, and a wonderful and rare opportunity to meet some of these masters. I highly recommend attending Nashville.

Barbara Davis
http://www.taijiquanjournal.com

by **Bob Ashmore** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:41 pm

Barbara,
I was not privileged to attend the 2006 event. I've heard it was awesome.
Tai Chi Symposium 2009 is my first chance to attend such a large event and I'm really looking forward to it.
I hope I'll get to meet you there. Look for the short, thickset blonde guy who is looking bewildered by it all and introduce yourself. That'll be me.
;-)

by **Bob Ashmore** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:14 pm

Just wanted to remind everyone that the Symposium is in one month.
Make your reservations now!
I hope to see you all there.

Bob

by **taiji-jim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by mlot:
 I have acquaintances who live near and work at Vanderbilt University. I certainly hope to attend.

For those of you not wanting to go to the homepage, here is the link: http://www.taichisymposium.com/

[This message has been edited by mlot (edited 01-20-2009).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a SYMOSIUM??? ;o)

by **taiji-jim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob Ashmore:
Just wanted to remind everyone that the Symposium is in one month.
Make your reservations now!
I hope to see you all there.

Bob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm looking forward to it - except for rooming with that Bob Ashmore guy. Oh, well. Sacrifices must be made, I guess. ;o)

by **Audi** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:01 am

Hi everyone,

I am definitely looking forward to the symposium and hope that the stars remain suitably aligned for me to attend.

I am not really looking to change styles, but I still have a bunch of questions about some of the other traditional styles that can only be answered by some hand- on instruction. For instance, why do Wu/Hao stylists make all those tiny movements? What are the Baguag elements in Sun Style stepping, and why are they there? What makes Wu Jiangquan's style "small circle"? Why do Chen Stylists love to back weight their stances?

I am also looking forward to some great cameraderie that will hopefully even transcend some of the styles. Maybe we can exchange some interesting approaches to push hands?

Take care,
Audi

by **shugdenla** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:28 pm

why do Wu/Hao stylists make all those tiny movements? What are the Baguag elements in Sun Style stepping, and why are they there? What makes Wu Jiangquan's style "small circle"? Why do Chen Stylists love to back weight their stances?

From my limited viewpoint, it is functional and utilitarian in origin based on the individual practitioner.

a. Wu/Hao and Sun style taijiquan share a common link so it may be a crossover training method that can be incorporated into the function of that type of response to an assault! If one's personality like to be real close to the opponent, then Wu/Hao/Sun mabe the stylistic endpoint of usage.

b. "Small Circle" may be better at absorbing and throwing per the individual psyche and perhaps more outward in teaching the principle.

c. I personally would not say Chen stylsits like to 'back weight' their position but it can be merely a "pause" or "break" to "sense" where the force is coming from to redirect elsewhere. In any encounter it can serve to absorb then shoot out (fajin) to defeat the opponent. No one goes forward all the time in the first 10 seconds of an attack (unless the opponent is weak in the first palce) so without retreating, one can use the "break" as a listening (tingjin!) opportuinity!

by **Audi** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:55 pm

Hi Shugdenla,

Thanks for your comments. Would you be willing to elaborate a little more?

Wu/Hao and Sun style taijiquan share a common link so it may be a crossover training method that can be incorporated into the function of that type of response to an assault! If one's personality like to be real close to the opponent, then Wu/Hao/Sun mabe the stylistic endpoint of usage.

I think I could accept these reasons, but what do you think is the purpose of all the tiny hand adjustments in such a seemingly straightforward posture as Push?

Also, in Yang Style we seem to like ending postures with both feet solidly rooted; however, in Wu/Hao Style, they seem to like ending postures with the feet almost together. I think I understand the logic behind the Yang Style practice, but am not sure about the Wu/Hao practice.

"Small Circle" may be better at absorbing and throwing per the individual psyche and perhaps more outward in teaching the principle.

Do you think this is connected with the parallel stepping and lean of Wu Style, or are these separate characteristics not necessarily related to the focus on "small circles"?

I personally would not say Chen stylsits like to 'back weight' their position but it can be merely a "pause" or "break" to "sense" where the force is coming from to redirect elsewhere.

If I remember correctly, Chen Stylists use an equivalent of the Yang Bow Stance that has 40% of the weight on the front foot and 60% on the back foot. I used to think this was very strange until I started noticing myself do this occasionally when playing around with Fajin and shorter energy.

Take care,
Audi

by **shugdenla** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:40 pm

I think I could accept these reasons, but what do you think is the purpose of all the tiny hand adjustments in such a seemingly straightforward posture as Push?

If Push was that straightforward, many tuishou competitions would be more appealing and esthetic but this is not the case. My "eyeball test" is that the push of Sun/Wu/Hao is the same as Chen (hand formation) but function and opportunity will differ. Chen is more towards hip/waist while Sun is higher! As long as you have the "opportunity", then Push will work but opportunity is harder to get hence the shoving one sees in many venues.

Regarding the comment

Yang Style we seem to like ending postures with both feet solidly rooted

but in my Yang experience, that is rarely the case. My characterization is different in that my feet are rarely planted while noting that in the beginning of Yang taolu from qishi to dan pian at least, there is a constant weight shifting and that is influenced by where I imagine I want to empty and where I want to make solid.
Even with Grasp Birds Tail, with feet planted, there is still that weight shifting taking place (forward/backward with left/right) i.e. penglujiankao and if necessary "diagonal flying" being contained within grasp birds tail. If I add Sun style stepping up to diagonal flying I can magnify the effect.

Since I am aware of some of the Older Yang patterns, they do have the equivalent of 'stepping up' (similat to Sun style) as par of taolu whereas the Yang Chengfu formalized set got rid of it previous to that era!

[This message has been edited by shugdenla (edited June 17, 2009).]

by **Bob Ashmore** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:53 pm

Jim,
And what makes you think my bunking in with you for a week is going to be a picnic for me? ;o)~

Audi,
It is strange that you mention that backweighted stance...
I've been doing that lately myself from time to time.
I have NO idea where it came from either. It's not anything I've ever been taught, not in any style I've ever trained has anyone ever showed me this.
It's not just being on the back side of a bow stance either, I'm quite used to the how and why of doing that. Instead it is expressing energy going forward but the stance does not go fully forward, instead it is, as you put it so aptly, backweighted.
It feels sort of like an empty stance in the energy transmission, but the feet and body are set like a bow stance and the energy is straight on to my opponent.
It took me a while to feel what was happening but now it's clear to me when I do it.
The most confusing part, for me, is that I cannot seem to replicate this during solo practice. It only seems to happen when I'm in contact with a partner. It allows me to fajin quite clearly when I do it and I find myself having to NOT do that against my partner so as not to accidently do any harm.
I've noticed that, overall, my stance work is getting less "weighted" in that I now tend to be mostly 55/45 bow stance weighted when I practice push hands unless I need that extra room, but this is a clear "backweighted" phenomenon that I have no precedent for.
I've only just noticed it very recently and with my instructor being sort of tied up on Symposium business I haven't taken up any of his time to ask any questions about it. I figured I can get my answers in good time and so have let it be.
I'm quite glad to see I'm not alone with this however.
Any ideas, theories or ramblings anyone has on this will be appreciated.

I want to make it clear that this is something that I have just begun to take notice of and so I have not done a lot of experimentation with it. I don't train in this fashion and so was quite surprised to see it come out of myself all on its own. My total lack of ability to recreate this "backweighted" stance sort of precludes me from doing any experimenting with it, it just seems to happen naturally and appropriately when I'm working with a partner.

Shug,
I'm quite curious about the "step up" being added to Diagonal Flying. Perhaps you could explain that in a bit more detail for us?
Thanks.

Bob

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