Weighted or unweighted pivots?

Postby Michael » Sat Mar 03, 2001 2:07 pm

Everybody, i have just read over most of my previous posts and was disheartened by what i found. I must APOLOGIZE for the numerous misunderstandings that I am sure have resulted.

A little over two weeks ago i sustained an injury and since that time my existence has more or less been made possible by the use of a fair quantity of painkillers. This has, without a doubt, had a significant impact on several occasions where I have misunderstood others, and in other instances where i made poor choices in the use of words and created misunderstandings for you. I will edit those postings so that those misunderstandings may be cleared up.

Thank you for your patience, Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 03-04-2001).]
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Postby Mike » Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JerryKarin:
<B>I am going to keep all the public forums as is, except for the ask Yang Jun forum, which will be moved into a private, Association members only area (only because he and I have limited time available for answering questions,it's much easier to handle questions posed by practitioners who are actually trying to do the form the same way as the Yangs, and because we are trying to get back to the original concept of this as a service for association members). Personally I am going try to to avoid making pronouncements about form specifics in the public area, for the reasons I just mentioned; it's just too frustrating (for me anyway)when there is no common basis. The members only area will have somewhat different ground rules, because the basic idea will be that we are discussing the form as taught by the Yangs.

[This message has been edited by JerryKarin (edited 03-02-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jerry:

It's your forum, of course, but I think that you can easily post what Yang Jun says without having much conflict. Naturally, there are a number of people who will tell you that Yang Jun, Wang Pei Sheng, Chen Xiao Wang, etc., etc., don't know what they are talking about because THEIR teacher has the real stuff.... but that doesn't really rate much comment.

I would say that there should be an association forum only, but not one that hinders any potential tool for the spread of good Taiji.

FWIW

Mike
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Postby Charla Quinn » Sat Mar 03, 2001 6:39 pm

[ I see that any time I cite what the Yangs do, there will always be a chorus of different versions, all of which is actually pretty confusing to the beginner.

I am going to keep all the public forums as is, except for the ask Yang Jun forum, which will be moved into a private, Association members only area (only because he and I have limited time available for answering questions,it's much easier to handle questions posed by practitioners who are actually trying to do the form the same way as the Yangs, and because we are trying to get back to the original concept of this as a service for association members). Personally I am going try to to avoid making pronouncements about form specifics in the public area, for the reasons I just mentioned; it's just too frustrating (for me anyway)when there is no common basis. The members only area will have somewhat different ground rules, because the basic idea will be that we are discussing the form as taught by the Yangs.

[This message has been edited by JerryKarin (edited 03-02-2001).][/B][/QUOTE]


Jerry,
I like your idea as I am an avid reader of this discussion board AND a "beginner!" I feel very fortunate to call the Yangs my teachers and I am striving to do the form the way THEY teach it. However, I enjoy reading what the other (non Yang Family/Association) practitioners are doing, and yes, it is confusing and way beyond me at times so it would be nice to know if they were currently practicing our school of TC. Then, I could sort out what news to use so to speak, while still broadening my mind! Thanks. CQ
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Postby DavidJ » Sat Mar 03, 2001 9:27 pm

Audi,

Differentiating between solid and empty can be done while pivoting on a weighted foot, or in this case a 'solid' foot.

To me, the term, "solidly planted" means that the weight of the body is secure there, not neccessarily immobile. If a foot and leg can support and anchor to the same degree while pivoting, as they can while not pivoting, then, I think, the idea of "solidly planted" is satisfied.
Turning and moving your body adroitly is what you're looking for. If you can do that with weighted pivots, and remain stable, where is the problem?

One of the rules of Tai Chi is to have a hand in front of you before shifting the weight forward. Can you see how that can affect the timing of 'Brush Knee'?

Sometimes I do 'Brush knee' the way you described, waiting until the waist turn is almost complete before shifting the weight forward, but usually I begin the waist turn before I begin the weight shift, and I end the waist turn after I end the weight shift. This way the strenghth of the legs, waist and shoulders are behind the entire push.

As I posted elsewhere, I find nothing wrong with the name 'Apparent Closure,' or 'Apparent Close-up.' It's supposed to be a fake-out, a feint: to pretend to withdraw, cringe and cover up.

David
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Postby tai1chi » Sat Mar 03, 2001 10:32 pm

Hi Jerry,

I have to admit that I'm not an association member, and maybe not even a practitioner of Yang taiji. So, my opinion is worthless, but I'll give it anyway. I guess I see the benefit for a beginner from your association having a forum where the only point of view would be that of the association. However, I'm not sure if that would do much to spread the association's point of view. Although it is also true that having (apparently) conflicting viewpoints on practice can be confusing to a beginner, recognizing that there are "other" perspectives is --imho-- invaluable to someone who wants to progress. Well, past events have shown that differences of opinion can be disruptive --primarily because they become competitions between points of view. If I'm not mistaken, Yang Jun spoke to that issue and the need for cooperation among the various families. That was my understanding of his letter. Let me say that one of the attractions of this particular board --for me-- was that there were tjq scholars, aficionados, experts, intellects and family members here who have not been able to (relatively) peacefully coexist anywhere else on the internet. It was exceptional for that reason alone. Oh well, ties are lost all the time. Anyway, I suppose in terms of "form", I'd agree that learning "one way, and one way only" is probably best at first. However, when it comes to addressing the "theory" of why something is done in a certain way, or how to reconcile the "way" we do something to the "Classics" of Yang tjq, then I really don't see that the benefit of a separate forum would be. As Mike S. said, it's your board and participants are subject to your rules. Thanks for the opportunity.

Best,
Steve James
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Postby JerryKarin » Sat Mar 03, 2001 10:47 pm

Steve, we will continue to have the same public areas and hopefully all the same folks who have been posting will continue to do so. This has value. We will simply be adding a new area where students of Yang Zhenduo and Yang Jun can talk about the form the Yangs teach. The idea is that in that new area it will not be necessary to hash out all the discrepancies between what the Yangs do and what other teachers are showing, because the object of the new forum is to discuss the forms as taught by the Yangs. So I think nothing will be lost (except maybe some unrealistic expectations on my part with regard to the public area, for which I apologize).
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Postby tai1chi » Sat Mar 03, 2001 11:39 pm

Hi Jerry,

oops, I think I misunderstood. I thought you meant to limit the present forum. Whatever the solution, I hope that doesn't happen. OTOH, the moderation on this board has more than partially been the result of the moderation. So, keep up the good work.

Best,
Steve
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